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The Saved Backslider
- Thread starter rockytopva
- Start date
No, Peter, Paul, Mark, John and Luke all agree with me, over and against your unbiblical views.
Thessalonians 2:13 clearly teaches people are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth.
We were not "individually" chosen before the foundation of the world, but God did choose His redeemer, His Lamb of God, and therefore all those His Redeemer will redeem were chosen corporately "in Him" before the foundation of the world.
As I said every person saved is chosen for salvation, and Gentiles are saved. Thus scripture "clearly states" that Gentiles are among the elect.
I do not believe that Christ leaves anyone out like the Calvinist. Any man can believe and be saved. God's choosing was the whole world and is not the same as elect like the Jews being elected by God to be His people. You might say they mean the same thing but I don't believe they are the same. Gentiles will never take the place of the Jew. It's true there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile. IOW's we are the same but the election of the Jew took place long ago and for different reasons.
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Notice that the word "might" is not a definet insurance because it is up to Christ whether He saves us or not.Many have asked for Salvation, but until Christ see's they have faith they are not saved.
MB
MB
1) Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all mankind.
2) Agreed, almost any person can believe and be saved, provided he or she has not become like soil #1 of Matthew 13.
3) I know of no verse that says God chose the "whole world."
4) Yes, election for salvation is different than being a part of Abraham's blood line, which was chosen to carry out God's plan.
5) Certainly Gentiles become part of Abraham's descendants, Galatians 3.
6) God chose each individual person for salvation, you continue to deny 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
7) I agree we placed our faith in Christ so that we "might" be saved. Salvation comes when God alone credits our faith as righteousness which results in our being chosen and placed in Christ. It is a logical necessity that in order for God to set us apart in Christ, God must "choose" to set us apart in Christ. All this denial of election is nonsense.
Do you even read the verses? If you do, then why not accept them?
1) So you deny that soil #1 of Matthew 13 was unable to understand the gospel?
2) So you deny that 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says chosen for salvation?
This is regarding a pre-salvation state. It's clear reading the context through vs. 39, which concludes, "But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved."
That passage direct towards jews who were professing Jesus was messiah, but decided that His death was not atonement enough, and needed OT sacrifices still!
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Yes, I think so. Just as in Hebrews 6 who are enlightened, but not yet embracing the gospel and exercising saving faith. But then he goes on to say that he believed otherwise about his audience.
Heb. 10:39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.
Same is true is Her. 6.
Heb. 6:9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation.
They were not His sheep because they would not follow Christ. Jn 10 Proves that election has nothing to do with Salvation. These were Jews whom He was speaking to. They chose there path and it was not Christ. You see it as being unable. A sheep is one who Believes in Christ. We aren't sheep until we do believe.
MB
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
That is not what Jesus said. He said they did not believe because they were not His sheep. Jesus said it. Don’t change His words around to make it mean the opposite of what He said.
Jesus said He knew His sheep and called them by name. Once He called them, they followed and none were lost. Jesus said it, don’t change it.
Jesus knew His sheep by name before they followed Him. That is what He said.
peace to you
Scripture teaches that some people have hardened their hearts by the practice of sin that they can no longer even understand the gospel, let alone accept it. This is soil #1 of Matthew 13:19. For someone to flip this so that the idea the person receives the gospel at some other time is a complete denial of the obvious.
Calvinists say we were elect before creation, and then compelled to believe by irresistible grace. MB knows this view is bogus, but has (in my opinion) thrown the baby out with the bath water. We are individually elected (chosen for salvation) on the basis of faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. So rather than being chosen individually before creation, we are chosen individually on the basis of God crediting our faith in Christ as righteousness, Romans 4:3-4, Romans 4:23-24. This election occurs during our lifetime, after we have trusted fully in Christ, and is not an election based on foreseen faith that occurred before creation.