The Saved Backslider

[MB]

biblical pointUniversal salvation for all. No need to do anything. All sins are paid for. This saith Barry Johnson...

Your reading and comprehension is very poor. Christ did die for the sins of the whole world. You don't even understand the simplest of points of scripture. And you call someone a universalist because of it. You must be one of those who deny what scripture actually says.In favor of your own interpretation. However your interpretation is wrong. Scripture never says Christ died for the elect alone. Wouldn't matter anyways because you're not elect you're just a Gentile.
MB

 

[MB]

There is no verse that says or suggests your assertion. Everyone placed in Christ has their sin burden removed, covering past present and future sins. Jesus did not pay for the specific sins of those not put in Christ, they pay for them themselves in Hades and Gehenna. Jesus bought with His blood the right to forgive those God chooses to place in Christ. Even to this day, God is reconciling the world, one sinner at a time, as God puts them in Christ based on crediting their faith as righteousness.

You have no passage that says you're elect and that Christ died only for the elect. Not only this but only Jesus Saves. God does not put people in Christ. Jesus Saves them and only then are they in Christ The Holy Spirit does not save people either. He is our comforter not our savior

Christ died for the whole world and you are denying what Christ Himself said in scripture.
MB

 

[Van]

1 John 2:2

“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
do you have any verses to go with your statement please ?

I have plenty but your citation will do fine, Jesus became the propitiation or means of salvation for the sins of the whole world. Only those placed in Christ have God's wrath turned aside for their individual sins. So the verse says anyone in the whole world, all mankind can have their sins forgiven.

 

[Van]

it's clear from the bible that Jesus paid for the sins of the entire world on the cross.
What's happened is you have bought into a system that tells you that Jesus ' death ' only paid for the ' elect ' ( which is never found in the bible) but without thinking that no one is saved by the death of christ ( you cannot be saved without the death and shed blood of course , but His death is not what saves a person .

Please stop misrepresenting my view!! I did not say or suggest, rather I deny Jesus paid only for the elect. He bought everyone, those to be saved and those never to be saved.

I told you that when God places a person into Christ, that is what "saves" the person because they are then (1) made alive (born anew, regenerated), they undergo the washing of regeneration which removes their sin burden (what God holds against them) and thus set aside (sanctified) in Christ we become "saints."

 

[Van]

You have no passage that says you're elect and that Christ died only for the elect. Not only this but only Jesus Saves. God does not put people in Christ. Jesus Saves them and only then are they in Christ The Holy Spirit does not save people either. He is our comforter not our savior

Christ died for the whole world and you are denying what Christ Himself said in scripture.
MB

And again my view is misrepresented, wasting my time, and derailing any actual discussion of scripture.
You claim "God does not put people in Christ." 1 Corinthians 1:30 says we are "in Christ" by God's doing (NASB).
Of course the Holy Spirit saves people when He sets them apart in Christ, the "sanctification by the Spirit. 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
Of course Christ is our Savior, no one suggested or said otherwise, so deflection on display.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yeah like that's happening all the time today ??

It still happens today, see all of those clinging to being water baptized, member of a church, had an alter call etc!

 

[Yeshua1]

Please stop misrepresenting my view!! I did not say or suggest, rather I deny Jesus paid only for the elect. He bought everyone, those to be saved and those never to be saved.

I told you that when God places a person into Christ, that is what "saves" the person because they are then (1) made alive (born anew, regenerated), they undergo the washing of regeneration which removes their sin burden (what God holds against them) and thus set aside (sanctified) in Christ we become "saints."

They are regenerated first, and then can believe and receive Jesus as Lord!

 

[MB]

And again my view is misrepresented, wasting my time, and derailing any actual discussion of scripture.
You claim "God does not put people in Christ." 1 Corinthians 1:30 says we are "in Christ" by God's doing (NASB).
Of course the Holy Spirit saves people when He sets them apart in Christ, the "sanctification by the Spirit. 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
Of course Christ is our Savior, no one suggested or said otherwise, so deflection on display.

You conveniently forget that Paul taught in the synagogues in both places. No where does it say Gentiles were present or that Gentiles are elect. It does not Say Gentiles are elect ever. You are reading what is in your imagination.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

You conveniently forget that Paul taught in the synagogues in both places. No where does it say Gentiles were present or that Gentiles are elect. It does not Say Gentiles are elect ever. You are reading what is in your imagination.
MB

Romans 8:29-30

 

[Van]

They are regenerated first, and then can believe and receive Jesus as Lord!

Utter nonsense, utterly false. Scripture teacher we are made alive TOGETHER WITH CHRIST. Ephesians 2:5.

 

[Van]

You conveniently forget that Paul taught in the synagogues in both places. No where does it say Gentiles were present or that Gentiles are elect. It does not Say Gentiles are elect ever. You are reading what is in your imagination.
MB

Utterly false nonsense. And note the gratuitous disparagement. BTW everyone saved was chosen for salvation, thus to deny their election is to deny their salvation. UFN

 

[Rob_BW]

Americans are different in their generation. I heard a Baptist preacher on the bbnradio.org speak of the evils of the Laodicean age just last week. I believe the churches as seven congregations....

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul. Foxes book of Martyrs has the persecutions as ten.
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages.
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first buy a mansion off ministry.

One of the reason that I repeated the OP story at the Easter meal was that there are those who have what I would call a Laodicean cold towards the things of Christ. It is also amazing thing to see family go to church in shorts and sandals knowing their grandparents would attend in suit and proper dress.

There you go on about poor ol DL Moody again. As if any purported crime you accuse him of hadn't been committed centuries before.

First person to use church money for a mansion, huh?
Palace of Castel Gandolfo - Wikipedia

 

[Yeshua1]

Utter nonsense, utterly false. Scripture teacher we are made alive TOGETHER WITH CHRIST. Ephesians 2:5.

Keep going, as in Ephesians 2:8-10

 

[Van]

Keep going, as in Ephesians 2:8-10

Utterly non germane deflection, we are made alive only when God puts us into Christ because we are made alive together with Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

Utterly non germane deflection, we are made alive only when God puts us into Christ because we are made alive together with Christ.

God chose us in Christ before we were saved!

 

[MB]

Utterly false nonsense. And note the gratuitous disparagement. BTW everyone saved was chosen for salvation, thus to deny their election is to deny their salvation. UFN

No Scripture to prove this. If chosen before Salvation then why? . Man is not chosen as a sinner so we are not chosen before the foundation of the world. Explain why there is no scripture that clearly states that Gentiles are elect. If in fact they are.
MB

 

[AustinC]

Your reading and comprehension is very poor. Christ did die for the sins of the whole world. You don't even understand the simplest of points of scripture. And you call someone a universalist because of it. You must be one of those who deny what scripture actually says.In favor of your own interpretation. However your interpretation is wrong. Scripture never says Christ died for the elect alone. Wouldn't matter anyways because you're not elect you're just a Gentile.
MB

"Christ died for the sins of the whole world." This is your claim.
Was his atonement, in that death, effectual for all humanities sins? Or is his atonement effectual for a limited number?

 

[Van]

God chose us in Christ before we were saved!

Y1 repeats his false doctrine non-stop, never addressing all the scripture that precludes the Calvinist view.
For example 1 Peter 2:9-10 absolutely precludes being chosen before being born and not being a people having not received mercy. But Y1 will simply ignore scripture and post "taint so."

 

[Van]

No Scripture to prove this. If chosen before Salvation then why? . Man is not chosen as a sinner so we are not chosen before the foundation of the world. Explain why there is no scripture that clearly states that Gentiles are elect. If in fact they are.
MB

2 Thessalonians 2:13 clearly teaches people are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth.
We were not "individually" chosen before the foundation of the world, but God did choose His redeemer, His Lamb of God, and therefore all those His Redeemer will redeem were chosen corporately "in Him" before the foundation of the world.
As I said every person saved is chosen for salvation, and Gentiles are saved. Thus scripture "clearly states" that Gentiles are among the elect.

 

[MB]

"Christ died for the sins of the whole world." This is your claim.
Was his atonement, in that death, effectual for all humanities sins? Or is his atonement effectual for a limited number?

The atonement is for who so ever would believe. And all men have the ability to believe even though not all do. The atonement is for all sin even those we have not committed yet. Past ,Present, and future.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
MB