The Shroud of Turin

[BobRyan]

Yes I admitted it, yet IF I were to have joined the BB during that time period as a Baptist...what should I have listed as my denomination?

In XC
-

I for one am glad to have them here.

I prefer to talk to actual Catholics about Catholic doctrine. It is much less satisfying to try to come up with persuasive compelling Bible study with a fellow protestant about the flaws in Catholic doctrine - because they are not nearly as motivated to find a flaw in the argument and thus improve it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

And "yet" I have this book entitled "The Baptist Faith and Message" - that indicates that when Baptist's gather themselves into denominations (like the Southern Baptist denomination) they do come up with a consistent set of doctrinal statements that they all believe (in the same sense that all Adventists believe their stated 28 Fundamental Beliefs) -- even though beyond that set - they have variation.

in Christ,

Bob

The first distinctive is the most important distinctive--that the Bible is the sole authority. The Baptist will look at the SDA and say immediately that they have another authority which the SDA determines inspired and some consider it on equal ground or as authoritative as the Bible.

Most of the Baptists that I know, and in fact all the Baptists that I associate with, believe that the sign gifts have ceased--including that of prophecy. They believe that this give was never given to a woman in the first place and that female leaders were entirely out of place. That puts the SDA way out there as a false cult, as its origins with Ellen G. White and her writings, are considered close to blasphemous. To have a women instructing the church is unthinkable when Paul commands authoritatively against it.

 

[BillySunday1935]

Yes they do. See below.
Then by default you are not a Baptist.

Then you must be all-knowing.

Then you are exactly what you said you are: "masquerading." And you are a fool to be doing so.

Here are parts of the rules and the User Agreement.

Be aware of forum Categories. We offer a wide range of forums. Most are for BAPTISTS only, to post opinions, views, beliefs and ideas. We also have a few forums for BAPTISTS and all other CHRISTIANS, with pertinent topics that relate to everyone.

5. No trolling. Trolling consists of provoking large volumes of responses by posting absurdities, deliberately offensive insults, etc.

Although the administrators and moderators of BaptistBoard.com will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages or confirm the validity of information posted.

We at BaptistBoard.com reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you.

Once again, by clicking the button below to proceed with the registration process, you are agreeing to be bound by these terms of posting. This is our entire and exclusive User Agreement and it supersedes any earlier version. We may change our User Agreement at any time by posting a new version on our site.

I have not violated any part of Rule #5. However you violated this section "...posting...deliberately offensive insults" in this post by this statement: "...And you are a fool to be doing so."

So far, you have called me a liar, a deciever, and a fool.
Throwing insults at people with whom you disagree is YOUR tactic not mine.

Now - give yourself one demerit.

Peace!

 

[DHK]

Then you must be all-knowing.

Jesus said "By their fruit ye shall know them."
He expects us to be "fruit-inspectors." I have inspected your fruit and found it to be rotten to the core. You are not a Baptist.

I have not violated any part of Rule #5. However you violated this section "...posting...deliberately offensive insults" in this post by this statement: "...And you are a fool to be doing so."

So far, you have called me a liar, a deciever, and a fool.
Throwing insults at people with whom you disagree is YOUR tactic not mine.

Now - give yourself one demerit.

Peace!

5. No trolling. Trolling consists of provoking large volumes of responses by posting absurdities, deliberately offensive insults, etc.

1. You are a troll. You have come here posting offensive posts to every Baptist on this board. You are a deceiver and a fraud. Every post you post is offensive. It is offensive because of the mere fact that you claim to be a Baptist and there is not a Baptist bone in your body.

2. You joined April 4 (13 days ago), and since then have posted 145 posts. That is an average of 11.2 posts every day. It fits the description of "provoking large volumes of responses by posting absurdities," (which your RCC heresies are).

3. Again, by definition, they are deliberately offensive, especially as you call yourself a Baptist. They are deceptive in the context that you post them in.

 

[BillySunday1935]

You are not a Baptist.

You are not a reverend. And how do I know? I know because of your lack of Christian love toward others. You do not behave like a reverend, so by my right to discern who is a reverend and who is not, I deem this so. Now - do you see how ridiculous this argument is?

 

[BillySunday1935]

Jesus said "By their fruit ye shall know them."
He expects us to be "fruit-inspectors." I have inspected your fruit and found it to be rotten to the core. You are not a Baptist.

Well, by inpsiration of the Holy Spirit, I can say the same about you.

5. No trolling. Trolling consists of provoking large volumes of responses by posting absurdities, deliberately offensive insults, etc.

1. You are a troll. You have come here posting offensive posts to every Baptist on this board. You are a deceiver and a fraud. Every post you post is offensive. It is offensive because of the mere fact that you claim to be a Baptist and there is not a Baptist bone in your body.

Well, then you should be able to document and prove all of this. Show me where I have no membership in my affiliation. Find the church where I was baptised and petition for a certificate of baptism. I have provided you with all of this information.

You are hurling accusations at me that most reasonable people would cosider slanderous to my good name and character.

My posts are offensive only because you and others here disagree with what I am saying. If you don't want open and free discussion here on BB then why are you even doing this? Its called the free exchange of ideas.

2. You joined April 4 (13 days ago), and since then have posted 145 posts. That is an average of 11.2 posts every day.

And where do the forum rules state what consitutes excessive posting activity?

It fits the description of "provoking large volumes of responses by posting absurdities," (which your RCC heresies are).

Oh - I see now. Anything not of BB's stated Baptist theology is absurd and thus violates BB forum rules. Unfortunately, this precise language does NOT exist in those rules.

3. Again, by definition, they are deliberately offensive, especially as you call yourself a Baptist. They are deceptive in the context that you post them in.

There are other users here that post contrary to your beliefs; therefore, I expect and deserve equal treatment.

Peace!

 

[DHK]

Well, by inpsiration of the Holy Spirit, I can say the same about you.

No you can't. Only the authors of the Scriptures were inspired. You weren't. Any Baptist would know that. Again, your ignorance of Baptist doctrine shows.

Well, then you should be able the document and prove all of this. Show me where I have no membership in my affiliation. Find the church where I was baptised and petition for a certificate of baptism. I have provided you with all of this information.

I don't care a hoot where you have your affiliation. Deceivers are well known all over this world. I know of a church that admitted into membership a man who professed Christ as his Savior, and consequently baptized, and is now the head of the Sikh organization in the city in which he lives. He was a fraud. It happened in John's day:

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

It doesn't matter where you go to church. It matters what you believe. And you believe in Catholic doctrine, not Baptist. This is well documented on this board.

You are hurling accusations at me that most reasonable people would cosider slanderous to my good name and character.

I have said nothing on this board that cannot be documented.
For example, it is well documented that you believe in baptismal regeneration, a doctrine of the RCC, United Pentecostal, COC, and the Hindus, but certainly not the Baptists.

My posts are offensive only because you and others here disagree with what I am saying. If you don't want open and free discussion here on BB then why are you even doing this? Its called the free exchange of ideas.

They are offensive because you claim to be a Baptist and post like a Catholic. That is what is offensive. You are a fraud and a deceiver and refuse to admit it. No Baptist would post the things that you post.

And where do the forum rules state what consitutes excessive posting activity?

I just gave you a good example.

Oh - I see now. Anything not of BB's stated Baptist theology is absurd and thus violates BB forum rules. Unfortunately, this precise language does NOT exist in those rules

.

It is a private board. It is a Baptist board. It is a privilege, and not a right to post here. If you don't like the rules you can leave at any time. Be sure to leave your deposit at the door as you exit.

There are other users here that post contrary to your beliefs; therefore, I expect and deserve equal treatment.

Peace!

And any one that does not follow the rules will eventually be banned. If you expect and deserve equal treatment you are well on your way to being banned.

 

[BillySunday1935]

Here is an example where a pagan officer is participating not-of-his-own-free-will in an act of worship with his pagan king - bowing in worship before a pagan god. ( you are right BTW to compare this to what we find in the prayers to the dead saints so commonly found in the RCC).

Elisha does NOT say "doing such things pleases God" - rather he simply tells him to "go in peace". Elisha does NOT say to his fellow hebrews that it is now ok to go to pagan temples and bow before pagan gods. In fact in 1Cor 8 Paul says that to do so is to worship demons. In Acts 15 the Jerusalem council goes so far as to say that the saints should not even eat any meat that has been OFFERED to such pagan idols! And "yet" here is where the prayers to the dead defense of the RCC argument must go for its defense!

In the NT book of Acts God states that he overlooks times of ignorance but now calls all men everywhere to repentance..

Your argument above seeks "cover" for those who would worship the dead by praying to them and offering incense to them willingly - freely of their own desire -- by trying to mask over that deliberate act - the dilemma of a pagan officer who finally figures out that worship to his pagan god is wrong - but is forced to participate in it anyway.

How "instructive" to the unbiased objective reader.

Your solution in that regard speaks volumes about the practice.



This text does not say "offerred incense to the head of the bed"
This text does not say "prayed to the head of the bed".

this text does not say that Jaco spoke any words at all "to the head of the bed"

Certainly nothing like...

prayer to the "dead in Christ" – St. Francis


in Christ,

Bob

My whole point here and elsewhere is this: to pray is not necessarily synonymous with worship and that bowing/kneeling is not idolatry if the intent is not there. I believe that "...the dilemma of a pagan officer who finally figures out that worship to his pagan god is wrong - but is forced to participate in it anyway" proves that intent IS key.

Peace!

 

[BillySunday1935]

No you can't. Only the authors of the Scriptures were inspired. You weren't. Any Baptist would know that. Again, your ignorance of Baptist doctrine shows.

Do you actually deny that Baptist christians have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

I don't care a hoot where you have your affiliation. Deceivers are well known all over this world. I know of a church that admitted into membership a man who professed Christ as his Savior, and consequently baptized, and is now the head of the Sikh organization in the city in which he lives. He was a fraud. It happened in John's day:

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

It doesn't matter where you go to church. It matters what you believe. And you believe in Catholic doctrine, not Baptist. This is well documented on this board.

Well, if it [affiliation] doesn't matter then why require that data from perspective users? Further, if it doesn't matter then why were you asking me to prove that affiliation?

I have said nothing on this board that cannot be documented.

All you have provided thus far is nothing but speculation.

For example, it is well documented that you believe in baptismal regeneration, a doctrine of the RCC, United Pentecostal, COC, and the Hindus, but certainly not the Baptists.

This statement is one with which I completely disagree.

They are offensive because you claim to be a Baptist and post like a Catholic. That is what is offensive. You are a fraud and a deceiver and refuse to admit it. No Baptist would post the things that you post.

ditto...

It is a private board. It is a Baptist board. It is a privilege, and not a right to post here. If you don't like the rules you can leave at any time. Be sure to leave your deposit at the door as you exit.

And any one that does not follow the rules will eventually be banned. If you expect and deserve equal treatment you are well on your way to being banned.

Well, you most certainly have the right to do that. However, that does not make the decision to do so a correct one. Additionally, you might wish to consider the idea that your Forum Rules are a contract between members and the owners of BB - private or public. By the unambiguous language of those rules, I am not in violation thereof.

Peace!

 

[Revmitchell]

You are not a reverend. And how do I know? I know because of your lack of Christian love toward others. You do not behave like a reverend, so by my right to discern who is a reverend and who is not, I deem this so. Now - do you see how ridiculous this argument is?

yea good luck with that.Yet another failed comparison

 

[BillySunday1935]

You are not a baptist

Originally Posted by BillySunday1935
You are not a reverend. And how do I know? I know because of your lack of Christian love toward others. You do not behave like a reverend, so by my right to discern who is a reverend and who is not, I deem this so. Now - do you see how ridiculous this argument is?

yea good luck with that.Yet another failed comparison

I think that it is spot on, as it uses the same rationale that you and others here use to deduce that I am not a baptist. Failed comparison indeed!

Peace!

 

[DHK]

Do you actually deny that Baptist christians have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

You have provided evidence that:
1. you were "forced" to attend a Baptist church, but did not necessarily accept evangelical doctrine.
2. you studied with Catholic friends and embraced their doctrine.
3. you have not showed any evidence that you have the indwelling of the Spirit.

Well, if it [affiliation] doesn't matter then why require that data from perspective users? Further, if it doesn't matter then why were you asking me to prove that affiliation?

Affiliation does matter. That is why we ask it. If you put Muslim it is doubtful that you would be accepted.

All you have provided thus far is nothing but speculation.

The following is not speculation. The following is not Baptist doctrine. The following are your quotes with the links to prove it

There were many – many – writings out there at the time and different Churches had various collections of them. How did we end up with the New Testament canon that we read today? Why the 4th Century councils of course. How did they know which books, letters, etc. were to be included and which ones excluded? Well, they were guided by the Holy Spirit. And, by your acceptance of that New Testament canon , you tacitly accept the authority of those councils to establish that canon. There were no table of contents or index or list in scripture telling us which books were to be part of the New Testament. There is your inspiration and additional insight from God elsewhere other than Scripture. http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1539126&postcount=110

It was my understanding that the CC believes that one must be baptised by water and the Holy Spirit. Only God knows the persons actual disposition - whether Baptist or Catholic.
http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1536800&postcount=202

We are saved by grace working through faith. However, we must cooperate with that grace – and action – a work.
http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1536889&postcount=208

What do we have here? We have someone sprinkled with water and through that action, they are made clean from their filthiness, and they receive God’s spirit. This passage from the Old Testament shows us that God, by his own design and not that of men, uses an outward sign to bring about an inward change in his people – a foreshadowing of Baptism in the New Testament. Notice how God in the old covenant was preparing us for what he gives us in the new covenant.

And now, let’s move on to the New Testament to see the correlation.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22:16 16And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Scripture plainly tells us that Baptism washes away sin; and through Baptism, we receive the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:13
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body [the body of Christ], whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Clearly, baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ and thus is the entrance into the new covenant with God, just a circumcision was the entrance into the old covenant with God. Scripture makes this connection for us in the following.
http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1536372&postcount=145

I never used that word - I said that I think I have shown from scripture that Baptism is salvific. Please try "quoting" me accurately in the future.
http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1536402&postcount=150

John is speaking of works here and that those who do not “produce good fruit” [good works] will be thrown into hell. It just doesn’t say what you are attempting to make it say.
Repentance is required - as is baptism. There is nothing contrary to the salvific nature of baptism in that passage. Ironically, the verse is crystal clear: “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS.” And what do we then receive?the GIFT of the Holy Spirit.
Yes - however, God uses Baptism to confer that grace, as is clearly indicated in the very scripture that you are addressing. Here it is again: “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord” This is consistent throughout scripture.
http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1536452&postcount=152

I was saved at my Baptism by the grace of God (power of Christ). The Holy Spirit came and now dwells within me.
http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1536509&postcount=158

This is the proof, (not speculation) that you are not a Baptist.

 

[BillySunday1935]

You have provided evidence that:
1. you were "forced" to attend a Baptist church, but did not necessarily accept evangelical doctrine.

I NEVER said that. I said that I was forced to make an alter call (phisically dragged to the front of the church) and forced to make the confession of faith against my will. Aside from that experience, about the only things that I remember are how long-winded the preacher was - God rest his soul, and how the choir director's wife had absolutely no pitch what-so-ever. Coming from a musical family, this was sheer torture.

What does a seven year old know about evangelical doctrine? Clearly, my adult salvation experience is another matter.

By-the-by DHK, the only requirement that some of the SB Churches in this area have is that you move your letter from the previous Church of affiliation. After that, you’re in like Flynn! You may not believe it and you may not like it but, well, there it is.

2. you studied with Catholic friends and embraced their doctrine.

I NEVER said that either. I said that I have conversed with a few Catholic collegues over the years. That's a far cry from "study" or embracing their doctrines.

3. you have not showed any evidence that you have the indwelling of the Spirit.

What evidence do you require? Is there a sign or something - perhaps a secret hand shake or secret underwear?

Affiliation does matter. That is why we ask it. If you put Muslim it is doubtful that you would be accepted.

Then why did you say this?

I don't care a hoot where you have your affiliation. Deceivers are well known all over this world. I know of a church that admitted into membership a man who professed Christ as his Savior, and consequently baptized, and is now the head of the Sikh organization in the city in which he lives.

I can only respond to what you write. I am not a mind reader.

The following is not speculation. The following is not Baptist doctrine. The following are your quotes with the links to prove it

There were many – many – writings out there at the time and different Churches had various collections of them. How did we end up with the New Testament canon that we read today? Why the 4th Century councils of course. How did they know which books, letters, etc. were to be included and which ones excluded? Well, they were guided by the Holy Spirit. And, by your acceptance of that New Testament canon , you tacitly accept the authority of those councils to establish that canon. There were no table of contents or index or list in scripture telling us which books were to be part of the New Testament. There is your inspiration and additional insight from God elsewhere other than Scripture. http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php...&postcount=110

It was my understanding that the CC believes that one must be baptised by water and the Holy Spirit. Only God knows the persons actual disposition - whether Baptist or Catholic.
http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php...&postcount=202

We are saved by grace working through faith. However, we must cooperate with that grace – and action – a work.
http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php...&postcount=208

What do we have here? We have someone sprinkled with water and through that action, they are made clean from their filthiness, and they receive God’s spirit. This passage from the Old Testament shows us that God, by his own design and not that of men, uses an outward sign to bring about an inward change in his people – a foreshadowing of Baptism in the New Testament. Notice how God in the old covenant was preparing us for what he gives us in the new covenant.

And now, let’s move on to the New Testament to see the correlation.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22:16 16And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Scripture plainly tells us that Baptism washes away sin; and through Baptism, we receive the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:13
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body [the body of Christ], whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Clearly, baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ and thus is the entrance into the new covenant with God, just a circumcision was the entrance into the old covenant with God. Scripture makes this connection for us in the following.
http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php...&postcount=145

I never used that word - I said that I think I have shown from scripture that Baptism is salvific. Please try "quoting" me accurately in the future.
http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php...&postcount=150

John is speaking of works here and that those who do not “produce good fruit” [good works] will be thrown into hell. It just doesn’t say what you are attempting to make it say.
Repentance is required - as is baptism. There is nothing contrary to the salvific nature of baptism in that passage. Ironically, the verse is crystal clear: “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS.” And what do we then receive?the GIFT of the Holy Spirit.
Yes - however, God uses Baptism to confer that grace, as is clearly indicated in the very scripture that you are addressing. Here it is again: “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord” This is consistent throughout scripture.
http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php...&postcount=152

I was saved at my Baptism by the grace of God (power of Christ). The Holy Spirit came and now dwells within me.
http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php...&postcount=158

I fully embrace everything that I have posted on BB.
Including:
Salvation by baptism of water and spirit
Salvation by grace working through faith

Do you deny these two points? Because that is what these snippets that you posted are about.

This is the proof, (not speculation) that you are not a Baptist.

Hardly. What this is proof of is that I do not hold to all of the tenants to which you hold. This is proof that I don’t hold to all of the tenants to which some Baptists churches hold. I never made a claim to the contrary. Scripture does not preclude my beliefs and I’ve given plenty of it in my defense. You don’t set the standards of Baptist belief nor do I – that would be God’s job.

Perhaps the owners/administrators of BB should consider reworking the Forum Rules/User Agreement to make plain the requirement that unless one agrees to BB's statements of faith, then one will be refused membership at BB. Clearly, the terms and conditions of use are currently devoid of such explicit verbiage.

Peace!

 

[annsni]

[I fully embrace everything that I have posted on BB.[/B]
Including:
Salvation by baptism of water and spirit

Do you believe that you must be baptized to be saved?

 

[BillySunday1935]

Do you believe that you must be baptized to be saved?

Well, click on the links provided by DHK and find out.

 

[annsni]

Well, click on the links provided by DHK and find out.

No click.

I'm asking for an answer from you directly.

 

[Amy.G]

No click.

I'm asking for an answer from you directly.

Good luck with that.

 

[annsni]

Good luck with that.

A girl can try!

 

[BillySunday1935]

No click.

I'm asking for an answer from you directly.

Well, he's posted the link. If you want to see what I believe, then just go to the relevant link. Is that to much trouble?

 

[DHK]

No click.

I'm asking for an answer from you directly.

http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1539126&postcount=110


http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1536800&postcount=202


http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1536889&postcount=208


http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1536372&postcount=145

http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1536402&postcount=150

http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1536452&postcount=152

http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1536509&postcount=158