Two things: it is apparently you do not know what a drive by is. And you apparently missed the point of my post.
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The Shroud of Turin
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Two things: it is apparently you do not know what a drive by is. And you apparently missed the point of my post.
BillySunday1935
New Member
BillySunday1935
New Member
BillySunday1935
New Member
Interesting... In the light of this, let's re-examine your original statement…
WRONG!
1) There is a significant difference between "praying before an object" and "praying to an object". Catholics and Orthodox consider the latter as idolatry as does scripture.
2) Even your source makes a distinction between petition and intecession:
"...In the Bible "prayer" is used in a simpler and a more complex a narrower and a wider signification. In the former case [simpler and norrower] it is supplication for benefits either for one's self (petition) or for others (intercession). In the latter [more complex and wider] it is an act of worship which covers all soul in its approach to God." (ISBE) [Emphasis mine]
Prayer is NOT always synonomous with worship. Thus, as indicated by your own source, your statements of "fact" are wrong both etymologically and semantically.
Peace!
quantumfaith
Active Member
TYPES OF PRAYER
As mentioned before, there are different forms of prayer. The Holy Spirit wants to lead us into a balance of all these kinds of prayer.
Worship: [Heb. shachah {shaw-khaw'} = bow down, prostrate oneself]. The true worshipper God seeks worships in spirit and in truth. (John 4:23). God wants truth in the inner parts (Psalm 51:6). In true worship, there is a total bowing down of the heart to God. In worship we express love and admiration to God which is a response to the revelation of who God is revealed to us by the Holy Spirit. Worship is voluntary submission to the love, the will and the law of God. Any hypocrisy disqualifies us for true worship. In worship we hear the voice of God.
Confession: 1. In confession of sin, we tell God with our mouth our sin. We should specifically tell God what we did, or acknowledge what we failed to do that we should have done. This is necessary to restore communion with God and is a preparation for further fellowship. 2. In confession of the Word, we tell God with our mouths what He has said in His Word. We express faith and confidence in God and God's Word verbally, and it releases the blessing of God to us. Very rarely do we rise above the level of our verbal confession before God.
Thanksgiving: This is thanking God for what He has done for us. We can thank Him both for blessings seen and those as yet unseen. It is a key to faith and it is natural and right that we give thanks always to the One from whom all good things come. (1 Thessalonians 5:18)
Praise: This is declaring good things about God, both about his character (who he is) and also His actions. To say "God is good" is to praise God. There are many styles of praise. Some are noisy and exuberant, others are calm. Praise is well-expressed through music, singing, words, shouting, clapping, dancing, shouting and giving to God.
Petition: This is asking God for the things we desire. Jesus said, "Ask and you shall receive." (Matthew 7:7). We are commanded to ask.
Intercession: The ministry of intercession involves all the other types of prayer. However, the emphasis of the prayer ministry in intercession is the needs of others, and the advancement of God's interests in the world. It is not focussed on praying for things for oneself, but for others.
Waiting: (Habakkuk 2:1). This is a form of prayer in which the soul is silent and waits for God to move it or speak something by His Spirit. God promises to renew the strength of those who wait on Him (Isaiah 40:31; Psalm 27:14). We are to wait patiently on God. Through this we express to God in a practical way - not my will but Yours be done. If we are always talking in prayer we will not be able to hear what God is saying.
Warfare: (Psalm 149:6-9). This is prayer directed against the powers of darkness. Our praises to God are also a weapon directed against the powers of darkness (demons, fallen angels who are at work in the affairs of the world and the church). We pronounce against them the written judgment by reading the Scriptures of judgment against them (Psalm 149:9), we command them to be bound or to leave their positions of influence or authority in the name of Jesus. (Matthew 16:19; Mark 16:17). In "praying for the sick" we should pray prayers of command ordering the bodies of people to be healed in Jesus' name. This is a form of spiritual warfare since it is part of destroying the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8; Acts 10:38).
Praying in Tongues: (1 Corinthians 14: 2,15; Jude 20) This is a method of prayer available to those baptised in the Holy Spirit through which they can pray the will of God through words given by the Spirit. Since the mind (the understanding) is not directly involved the mind has a chance to rest and wait on God and receive revelation while this praying in tongues is taking place.
http://www.christian-faith.com/forjesus/prayer-intimacy-with-God#defn
The point being, prayer is not exclusively and only "worship", although it should always be done with a "worshipful" attitude and intent. I am certain that this list of "types" of prayer could be added to and I so encourage others to add their input. This is how we learn and grow, not by throwing thelological temper tantrums, declaring ourselves to be the victor and giving ourselves a big "attaboy". If a catholic acquaintence of mine says that he/she does not "worship" idols, then I accept the attitude and intent of their heart, a place I cannot see, that is the purview of God alone.
As mentioned before, there are different forms of prayer. The Holy Spirit wants to lead us into a balance of all these kinds of prayer.
Worship: [Heb. shachah {shaw-khaw'} = bow down, prostrate oneself]. The true worshipper God seeks worships in spirit and in truth. (John 4:23). God wants truth in the inner parts (Psalm 51:6). In true worship, there is a total bowing down of the heart to God. In worship we express love and admiration to God which is a response to the revelation of who God is revealed to us by the Holy Spirit. Worship is voluntary submission to the love, the will and the law of God. Any hypocrisy disqualifies us for true worship. In worship we hear the voice of God.
Confession: 1. In confession of sin, we tell God with our mouth our sin. We should specifically tell God what we did, or acknowledge what we failed to do that we should have done. This is necessary to restore communion with God and is a preparation for further fellowship. 2. In confession of the Word, we tell God with our mouths what He has said in His Word. We express faith and confidence in God and God's Word verbally, and it releases the blessing of God to us. Very rarely do we rise above the level of our verbal confession before God.
Thanksgiving: This is thanking God for what He has done for us. We can thank Him both for blessings seen and those as yet unseen. It is a key to faith and it is natural and right that we give thanks always to the One from whom all good things come. (1 Thessalonians 5:18)
Praise: This is declaring good things about God, both about his character (who he is) and also His actions. To say "God is good" is to praise God. There are many styles of praise. Some are noisy and exuberant, others are calm. Praise is well-expressed through music, singing, words, shouting, clapping, dancing, shouting and giving to God.
Petition: This is asking God for the things we desire. Jesus said, "Ask and you shall receive." (Matthew 7:7). We are commanded to ask.
Intercession: The ministry of intercession involves all the other types of prayer. However, the emphasis of the prayer ministry in intercession is the needs of others, and the advancement of God's interests in the world. It is not focussed on praying for things for oneself, but for others.
Waiting: (Habakkuk 2:1). This is a form of prayer in which the soul is silent and waits for God to move it or speak something by His Spirit. God promises to renew the strength of those who wait on Him (Isaiah 40:31; Psalm 27:14). We are to wait patiently on God. Through this we express to God in a practical way - not my will but Yours be done. If we are always talking in prayer we will not be able to hear what God is saying.
Warfare: (Psalm 149:6-9). This is prayer directed against the powers of darkness. Our praises to God are also a weapon directed against the powers of darkness (demons, fallen angels who are at work in the affairs of the world and the church). We pronounce against them the written judgment by reading the Scriptures of judgment against them (Psalm 149:9), we command them to be bound or to leave their positions of influence or authority in the name of Jesus. (Matthew 16:19; Mark 16:17). In "praying for the sick" we should pray prayers of command ordering the bodies of people to be healed in Jesus' name. This is a form of spiritual warfare since it is part of destroying the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8; Acts 10:38).
Praying in Tongues: (1 Corinthians 14: 2,15; Jude 20) This is a method of prayer available to those baptised in the Holy Spirit through which they can pray the will of God through words given by the Spirit. Since the mind (the understanding) is not directly involved the mind has a chance to rest and wait on God and receive revelation while this praying in tongues is taking place.
http://www.christian-faith.com/forjesus/prayer-intimacy-with-God#defn
The point being, prayer is not exclusively and only "worship", although it should always be done with a "worshipful" attitude and intent. I am certain that this list of "types" of prayer could be added to and I so encourage others to add their input. This is how we learn and grow, not by throwing thelological temper tantrums, declaring ourselves to be the victor and giving ourselves a big "attaboy". If a catholic acquaintence of mine says that he/she does not "worship" idols, then I accept the attitude and intent of their heart, a place I cannot see, that is the purview of God alone.
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Of course and DHK knows this...and all the Baptist's know this...just look at their Wednesday evening services..."Prayer/Worship Service" or "Prayer Meeting/Bible Study"...ect...
They like to make-up their own definitions, rules and history (remember, if you can control the definition, you can win the debate)..."veneration" and "worship" being two as an example...
In XC
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I know and I didn't.
Oh well your little smilie settled it all. Good luck with that. If you know then next time use it appropriately.
BillySunday1935
New Member
Look - if you want to discuss what I posted on the topic in an honest way, I'll be glad to oblige. Otherwise, why not give the attitude a rest. Hmmm?
BillySunday1935
New Member
Excellent posting!
I am not wrong in any of my conclusions. The more you post the more your ignorance on this subject shows.
Tell God that:
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:..
All prayer is to God unless it be idolatry.
Intercession for others is still prayer to God. It is a type of prayer, but always to God.
Petitions--We present out petitions to God alone. It is another aspect of prayer. Prayer is worship. These two aspects are just two parts of it.
All prayer is worship. All prayer is directed to God unless it is idolatry, and the RCC practices it a lot.
BillySunday1935
New Member
My source agrees with me. Your comprehension skills are poor.Not according to your source. Deal with it.
The problem is you refuse to make honest comparison. I pointed that out and the attitude came from you. You need to revisit your false comparisons.
If you look up ISBE for yourself (it is easily found on the WEB) you will find that it says much more about prayer. ALL prayer is directed to God, and therefore worship. Read more of the article. The concluding paragraph of the article is here:
All prayer is worship. Any true believer ought to find this basic truth obvious.
So...ann goes to the Scriptures, BS goes to Merriam Webster.
I think that pretty much sums it up...
I will say that I do understand one thing: When you want to believe something that Scripture doesn't teach...the Catholic church is an excellent choice, since they add to Scripture when they feel it needs some "help;" and since they have no problem with saying, "our guidelines are Scripture...plus this & that..."
BillySunday1935
New Member
Oh, so if my understanding of the passages in question differs from yours, then I refuse to make an honest comparison?
BillySunday1935
New Member
BillySunday1935
New Member
quantumfaith
Active Member
Amy, do you want to "put billy out" out of the baptist family of faith. Aren't we believers (christians) first, and second (distantly second) members of some denomination etc. The essence of baptists and protestantism in general is for the individual believer to have the freedom (spirtually speaking) to read, study and interpret scripture under the leadership of the Holy Spirit as they are so moved. Billy is certainly no threat to any one on this board, if fact, he challenges each and every one of us to think deeper and more critically of our own established postions. That can be a good thing.
Remember, it was primarily due to our Catholic brothers in Christ, that had a seminal role in the canonization of our precious scriptures. It is my personal and humble opinion that we should be careful to worship the God of the Bible and not the Bible itself.
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