Mikey
Active Member
It's one sentance, are you really unable to see it?? Even after it was pointed out to you by agedman?
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The Westminster Confession of Faith Blasphemy
- Thread starter SavedByGrace
- Start date
- Status
It's one sentance, are you really unable to see it?? Even after it was pointed out to you by agedman?
Mikey
Active Member
Chapter 6 – Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the Punishment thereof
1. Our first parents, being seduced by the subtilty and temptation of Satan, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit.a This their sin God was pleased, according to His wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to His own glory.b
aGen 3:13; 2 Cor 11:3. bRom 11:32.
Quoted from the NIV:
Genesis 3:13 'Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate."'
2 Corinthians 11:3 'But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.'
Romans 11:32 'For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.'
1. Our first parents, being seduced by the subtilty and temptation of Satan, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit.a This their sin God was pleased, according to His wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to His own glory.b
aGen 3:13; 2 Cor 11:3. bRom 11:32.
Quoted from the NIV:
Genesis 3:13 'Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate."'
2 Corinthians 11:3 'But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.'
Romans 11:32 'For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.'
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
It's one sentance, are you really unable to see it?? Even after it was pointed out to you by agedman?
Bible verses???
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Where do these verses say that God was PLEASED, and ORDERED our SINS for His Glory?
We have both given you verses.
Don’t include yourself in the statement.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Sorry you don’t recognize the support.still ZERO Bible support
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Again I ask, WHERE does the Bible says that our sins PLEASE God, and have been ORDERED for His Glory? One verse will do
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
deal with #29
Never stated by me.
Why are you attempting to bring the WMC statement concerning the plight of the two original humans as the same as you?
You were not created without sin, have fellowship face to face with God each evening, are given a mate without the appeal of sexual attraction, have free will such as Adam and Eve, or even come close to their intellect.
As I posted, why are you making this personal?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
can you explain the WCF quote in the OP, or not, simple question?
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I've never had much use for confessions, unless it's to notify someone of what I believe.
That said, I would not have signed the 1689 London Baptist Confession ( or it's counterpart, the Westminster Confession of Faith ) or agreed to it for a few reasons, which I will not get into in this thread...
Though I happen to agree with the bulk of it.
I believe the question being asked is, "Was He pleased with Adam and Eve's sin in the Garden?"
I cannot find Scripture that says that He was.
But I can find plenty of Scriptures that say that He is or was pleased with many things that we as men might find strange.
For example:
" He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand." ( Isaiah 53:8-10 ).
It pleased Him to bruise His own Son.
" And it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it." ( Deuteronomy 28:63 ).
The Lord will rejoice over Israel to destroy them? Huh?
Yes, He did." For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." (1 Corinthians 1:21).
It pleases God to do things that we as men think are foolish.
What I can say is, whatever comes to pass that He has purposed and / or planned for, did and does indeed please Him...
"Pleases" as in "satisfies" or "meets His approval".
Last edited:
Dave G
Well-Known Member
That said, I have a question of you, my friend...
@SavedByGrace :,
Why are you acting surprised or offended that something that comes to pass that the Lord has planned for, pleases Him ( or meets His approval )?
That language is scattered throughout His word, both in the Old Testament and in the New.
How is it that something like this seems alien to you...
that God would be pleased if something that He has purposed or planned for, like the fall of a nation or the judgment of sinners, "pleases" Him?
After all, He does what pleases Him, not us:
" Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me,
10 declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11 calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken [it], I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed [it], I will also do it." ( Isaiah 46:9-11 ).
My guess is that you've either not read these things, or they haven't really sunk in for some reason.
God is God, He is not like us.
He does as He wishes, not as we wish Him to.
He is beholden to no one ( Daniel 4:35 ), and we are beholden to Him in every way.
The only exception to that is if someone is saved, and even then if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us ( 1 John 5:14 ).
The most fitting thing I can think of in a situation like this is what Paul wrote, under inspiration:
" Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?" ( Romans 9:19-20 ).
Or what Isaiah wrote under the very same inspiration:
" Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?" ( Isaiah 45:9 ).
@SavedByGrace :,
Why are you acting surprised or offended that something that comes to pass that the Lord has planned for, pleases Him ( or meets His approval )?
That language is scattered throughout His word, both in the Old Testament and in the New.
How is it that something like this seems alien to you...
that God would be pleased if something that He has purposed or planned for, like the fall of a nation or the judgment of sinners, "pleases" Him?
After all, He does what pleases Him, not us:
" Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me,
10 declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11 calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken [it], I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed [it], I will also do it." ( Isaiah 46:9-11 ).
My guess is that you've either not read these things, or they haven't really sunk in for some reason.
God is God, He is not like us.
He does as He wishes, not as we wish Him to.
He is beholden to no one ( Daniel 4:35 ), and we are beholden to Him in every way.
The only exception to that is if someone is saved, and even then if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us ( 1 John 5:14 ).
The most fitting thing I can think of in a situation like this is what Paul wrote, under inspiration:
" Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?" ( Romans 9:19-20 ).
Or what Isaiah wrote under the very same inspiration:
" Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?" ( Isaiah 45:9 ).
Last edited:
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
"Pleased" and "ordered" have been explained to you. You can respond to that or not. You do exasperate me when you start a discussion and then talk past every answer given you. What are your reasons for not accepting the explanation of the above terms? You started this thread. It's supposed to be a discussion. Maybe not. I'm new here.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
If this sort of language as in the OP, was used by the Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, and not the Reformed, there is no doubt that it would be condemned! The language is OFFENSIVE to God, as it teaches LIES about His Character!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
both words have been defined as in the OP, by the Oxford dictionary, which is enough for me. the meanings have not changed. Show from Scripture where it supports the words of the WCF in the OP?
Dave G
Well-Known Member
What lies?
Do you wish to know about God's character, my friend?
Read Exodus through Deuteronomy and you should see His holiness.
Then take a look at the book of Joshua...and Job.
There's only one reason that He bothers to save any of us...
Because it pleases Him.
SBG, it seems that you're trying awfully hard to bring Him down to our level, when He is so far above us as to be out of sight and out of mind... were it not for His mercy and grace to some of us for opening our eyes to the truth of His words.
Last edited:
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
to ORDAIN our sins and the fall of Adam and Eve???
- Status