Jarthur001
Active Member
as you used it...for as you said..webdog said:
What did you mean by hate??????
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The "World"
- Thread starter Rippon
- Start date
What did you mean by hate??????
Jarthur001
Active Member
HankD said:
It seems like Hank believes God is really God. I agree Hank...He is God and can do as He pleases
Jarthur001
Active Member
The thread is open for all to see. No answer was given...for webdog knows it is the end of the road. Another strawman with a blank clipboard.webdog said:
Jarthur001
Active Member
How do I use the word?webdog said:
.
Biblical common sense 101:
1. God cannot sin:
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
2. God "kills", "slays" people for their sin.
Genesis 38:10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.
3) God kills, slays people and nations (Sodom and Gomorrah) and even the whole world (except for Noah and those on the ark) and yet He does not sin by doing so.
HankD
2. God "kills", "slays" people for their sin.
Genesis 38:10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.
3) God kills, slays people and nations (Sodom and Gomorrah) and even the whole world (except for Noah and those on the ark) and yet He does not sin by doing so.
HankD
Jarthur001
Active Member
webdog said:
the proof....
Please notice Israel asking...
Wherein hast thou loved us?
Wherein hast thou loved us?
Israel is saying...I do not feel you God do love us. Show me where you loved us. PROVE IT GOD!!!
And God said...Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau,
That sounds like proof to me.
If it is anything other then hate, it makes no sense.
Wherein hast thou loved us?
Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau,
sane ....used as>> hate 136, enemies 3, enemy 2, foes 1, hateful 1, mis
No "love less" ...or not like as much.
every English Bible claims it. Every Hebrew claims it. Will you change it to fit your doctrine?
Wherein hast thou loved us?
will it be the Calvinist that changes the meaning...or will you?
My guess it will be you
Last edited by a moderator:
Jarthur001
Active Member
HankD said:
I agree. This does not make God a sinner. Nor does it mean God made sin. My view of sin can be seen in my column...Paths of Life
http://lincolnstandard.com/main.asp?SectionID=26&SubSectionID=301&ArticleID=705&TM=74674.59
Hello HankD.
That's no problem. Of course Calvin explained the alternative. "Oops!" Says God.
Your argument is based on your perception that Calvinism makes us puppets but that is far from the truth. We are animated and real beings. God works through us as the complex beings we are. Grieving the Holy Spirit can be fun. Catch Him by surprise a?
I don't think Christ died for sin but sin was put there for Christ to die for. Christ dying comes before the reason. Christ dying was the reason for creation.
I quite agree with you but he does say things better than I do and has his uses on occasion.
About God's emotions. I would not judge God's emotions as I judge men's. When He says He is angry I believe it to be anger. The joy in Heaven is His not the angels. For God to repent, as we use the word, is a change of mind. This is one thing God never does and conflicts with scripture. It must be modified away or scripture falls.
john.
That's no problem. Of course Calvin explained the alternative. "Oops!" Says God.
Your argument is based on your perception that Calvinism makes us puppets but that is far from the truth. We are animated and real beings. God works through us as the complex beings we are. Grieving the Holy Spirit can be fun. Catch Him by surprise a?
I don't think Christ died for sin but sin was put there for Christ to die for. Christ dying comes before the reason. Christ dying was the reason for creation.
I quite agree with you but he does say things better than I do and has his uses on occasion.
About God's emotions. I would not judge God's emotions as I judge men's. When He says He is angry I believe it to be anger. The joy in Heaven is His not the angels. For God to repent, as we use the word, is a change of mind. This is one thing God never does and conflicts with scripture. It must be modified away or scripture falls.
john.
Yes, it would seem a conflict but nevertheless the Scripture plainly declares that He does repent (apart from repentance for sin which He obviously has no need):
Genesis 6
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
What other way can this be taken than God was sorry He created man?
Either way, as you say, to reject what this passage in Genesis is plainly saying would cause Scripture to fall.
And many other passages.
Personally, I really don't care what any Systematic Theology says or Calvin or any other man.
Again:
To be sure I am at a loss to explain how this can be since God is Almighty and omni-everything but I don't want to explain it away or assign some euphamism to the choice of words of the Holy Spirit.
I realize that Scripture on occassion appears to contradict itself:
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Notice it says "I change not".
So, as a place perhaps of a meeting ground: God repents (apart from repentance for sin) but in His repentance somehow His essential nature remains the same and does not change in spite of the repentance.
From Strong's:
Repent 5162
nacham {naw-kham'}
Meaning:
1) to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted 1a) (Niphal) 1a1) to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion 1a2) to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent 1a3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1a4) to comfort oneself, ease oneself 1b) (Piel) to comfort, console 1c) (Pual) to be comforted, be consoled 1d) (Hithpael) 1d1) to be sorry, have compassion 1d2) to rue, repent of 1d3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1d4) to ease oneself
I realize that reams of paper (and now electrons) have been written to change the meaning of this word when it comes to God's character.
Also some folks seem infuriated at the fact that the Scripture plainly assigns "hate" and "anger" to God and go to no small length in attempt to rewrite the Scripture:
Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
This simply cannot be made to say "love less" IMO.
Jeremiah 7:20 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.
Does thus saith the Lord GOD have no meaning anymore? He Himself speaks of His anger and fury with no mincing of words here and elsewhere.
However, since it seems so common a theme (God having this ability as well as a capacity of emotion) in the Scripture, I'm fully inclined to accept it without question.
HankD
Agreed.
This is capital punishment, and just. Killing out of hate only is murder.
Agreed. However, if He did kill for no reason, or out of hate for the person, by God's own law, that is murder. God cannot murder. If God tells man that hating others is murder and sin, He does not hate or murder, the way we know the word "hate" to mean.
Killing in hate might be murder and a breach of the law of God but I have never heard that He is under His own law. You need to prove God is under law. What law would God breach if He hated those He kills and is it better to say He kills in love? A thing He will have to do if He lacks hatred.
God cannot murder property. Hate, the Greek word, means to detest. God detests Esau.
That's what the good book says: Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I detested."Miseo
to hate, pursue with hatred, detest
to be hated, detested
KJV (42) - hate, 41; hateful, 1;
NAS (40) - hate, 13; hated, 12; hateful, 1; hates, 12; hating, 2;
Hate means hate webdog why do you say hate doesn't mean hate?
The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised.
john.
God is not under this law, He is holy, just and sinless as well as merciful.
Psalm 5
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
It is His right to destroy those whom He hates and in particular the workers of iniquity.
But He is also merciful and gives the opportunity for repentance before the destruction.
Revelation 2
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
He doesn't mince words about it either.
HankD
You needn't go any farther than this statement, rip. Of course, we do NOT live in the age of the "letter of the law" but n that age of the "Spirit" (or "context). Murder is not just killing someone -- it is now also hating someone.Rippon said:
Therefore, world has various meanings, some of which Calvinists have defined beyond even the frame of context. For instance, 1John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.[/quote] "Whole world" here is not just the "elect" nor just the "elect from all the world." There is NO basis in context for making such an application.
skypair
If He "hates" all workers of iniquity, He hates every human who ever lived. I don't think you have the correct understanding of "sane" and "miseo", the hebrew and greek words we who speak english translate as "hate".HankD said:
The argument that God is not under His own law is foolish. God's laws are just, holy and righteous, all characteristics of God. If God were to break His own laws to men and requirements, He would not only be a hypocrite, but not God.
Let me ask you all this...could Christ, who is God, have broken the very laws He set forth in stating whoever hates is a murderer? He is 100% God and Man, so if God does not need to follow His own laws He sets forth, does that mean Christ wouldn't be sinning if He commited adultery (lust) and murder (hate)?