Those who deny the general redemption.

[MrW]

It is true His death was necessary, for without Him pouring out His blood unto the death, there would be no resurrection.

 

[Brightfame52]

You continue to make assumption after assumption. The elect are those that are in Christ through faith in Him, not your assumed per chosen ones.

Now you are making an assumption !

 

[Brightfame52]

How do you continue to deny scripture? Did the Holy Spirit get it wrong? Should He have checked with some of your calvinist scholars first? You can continue to dance around this all you want but the truth is right there in front of you. You just have to accept it.

Again, if you believe folk wind up in hell for their sins, even after Christ has died for them, its apparent you dont believe Christs death saved whom He died for.. Now how is that Faith in Christ ?

 

[Brightfame52]

What is an error?

What you mean ? Cant you read what you posted that prompted that statement ?

 

[Silverhair]

Again, if you believe folk wind up in hell for their sins, even after Christ has died for them, its apparent you dont believe Christs death saved whom He died for.. Now how is that Faith in Christ ?

BF do you not read the whole bible? The truth is there for you to find. I and others have pointed to to it a number of times yet you still seem unable or more likely unwilling to accept the truth of scripture. That is really sad for one that claims to be a Christian.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He who believes is not condemned. He who does not believe is condemned already.

Jesus died for ALL SIN for ALL people "the world John 3: 16), except for the sin of unbelief.

why do churches make this so difficult?

 

[Brightfame52]

BF do you not read the whole bible? The truth is there for you to find. I and others have pointed to to it a number of times yet you still seem unable or more likely unwilling to accept the truth of scripture. That is really sad for one that claims to be a Christian.

What is sad is that you dont believe that Jesus Christ death, saved, healed them He died for. 1 Pet 2:24

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What is sad is that you dont believe that Jesus Christ death, saved, healed them He died for. 1 Pet 2:24

It did

But he will not force it on them, they must receive it in faith

He is not that kind of God that forces people to trust him

if they reject him, they will remain dead because of lack of belief and remain in a condemned state

 

[AustinC]

It did

But he will not force it on them, they must receive it in faith

Who generates the faith, God or man? You point to man when you use the word "they." Thus you teach works salvation apart from grace.

He is not that kind of God that forces people to trust him

So he won't save a person enslaved in sin unless that person gives expressed permission to God that He can save them?

You make man greater than God in power and authority.

if they reject him, they will remain dead because of lack of belief and remain in a condemned state

First, you have a dead in sins person making a choice about being made alive. You ignore the words "But God."
Second, apparently Jesus atonement didn't pay for the sin of unbelief in your thinking since their choice to not believe is the only thing that causes God not to believe.
Third, you make Paul's words of no importance: "And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?" (Romans 10:14)
Since you place rejection as the only cause, you also must advocate never sharing the gospel so that no one has the opportunity to choose to not believe. No knowledge equals no choice equals salvation because no rejection. Do you see your error?

 

[AustinC]

He who believes is not condemned. He who does not believe is condemned already.

So, regardless of hearing or not, all who don't confess Jesus are condemned by their unpaid sins.

Jesus died for ALL SIN for ALL people "the world John 3: 16), except for the sin of unbelief.

So, all sins are fully paid for, except one sin, which you label as unbelief.
Yet Paul says: "And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?"
If they never hear, they can never not believe, therefore don't share the gospel is the best policy to save the entire world.

Second, Jesus atonement is limited, not by God's choice, but by man's choice. This makes men more powerful than God.

Do you see your contradiction yet?

why do churches make this so difficult?

Why do you make grace and God's Supremacy so unimportant in salvation? Why do you fall back on salvation by human works while denying God's grace alone?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So, regardless of hearing or not, all who don't confess Jesus are condemned by their unpaid sins.


So, all sins are fully paid for, except one sin, which you label as unbelief.
Yet Paul says: "And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?"
If they never hear, they can never not believe, therefore don't share the gospel is the best policy to save the entire world.

Second, Jesus atonement is limited, not by God's choice, but by man's choice. This makes men more powerful than God.

Do you see your contradiction yet?


Why do you make grace and God's Supremacy so unimportant in salvation? Why do you fall back on salvation by human works while denying God's grace alone?

In Jesus own words

He who believes is NOT CONDEMNED
He who does not believe IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, Because they HAVE NOT BELIEVED

so your argument is with him. not me


Belief is not a work my friend. This fatalistic view is nonsensical. I am not believing in my works. I am entrusting my soul to God and his work and his promise. I can not take credit or boast in myself. I can only boast in God who saved me.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Who generates the faith, God or man? You point to man when you use the word "they." Thus you teach works salvation apart from grace.


So he won't save a person enslaved in sin unless that person gives expressed permission to God that He can save them?

You make man greater than God in power and authority.


First, you have a dead in sins person making a choice about being made alive. You ignore the words "But God."
Second, apparently Jesus atonement didn't pay for the sin of unbelief in your thinking since their choice to not believe is the only thing that causes God not to believe.
Third, you make Paul's words of no importance: "And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?" (Romans 10:14)
Since you place rejection as the only cause, you also must advocate never sharing the gospel so that no one has the opportunity to choose to not believe. No knowledge equals no choice equals salvation because no rejection. Do you see your error?

first off.

You have a man made alive while still in sin. This causes God to go against his own character.

the penalty of sin is death, Until that penalty is removed, the person is dead

Passing from death to life is a process called regeneration

Having ones sins forgiven or remitted is called justification.

hence Justification MUST precede sanctification.

as for never heard.. Romans 1 answers that question. No one has an excuse. because God has shown himself to everyone.

 

[JD731]

Who generates the faith, God or man? You point to man when you use the word "they." Thus you teach works salvation apart from grace.


So he won't save a person enslaved in sin unless that person gives expressed permission to God that He can save them?

You make man greater than God in power and authority.


First, you have a dead in sins person making a choice about being made alive. You ignore the words "But God."
Second, apparently Jesus atonement didn't pay for the sin of unbelief in your thinking since their choice to not believe is the only thing that causes God not to believe.
Third, you make Paul's words of no importance: "And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?" (Romans 10:14)
Since you place rejection as the only cause, you also must advocate never sharing the gospel so that no one has the opportunity to choose to not believe. No knowledge equals no choice equals salvation because no rejection. Do you see your error?

You must not get this wrong. The way is narrow and few find it we are told by one who knows. The way requires squeezing through this narrow way. It is not broad enough to accommodate two different ways of getting through but if God takes you through it doesn't really matter how broad or narrow it is and this information about it being narrow amounts to nothing in your confused world.

 

[Silverhair]

What is sad is that you dont believe that Jesus Christ death, saved, healed them He died for. 1 Pet 2:24

BF I will put this in simple language for you, try to understand.

What does the bible tells us about who Christ died for?
1Ti_2:5-6 who gave Himself a ransom for all
Heb_2:9 might taste death for everyone
Joh_3:15 whoever believes in Him
Joh_3:17 the world
1Jn_2:2 sins of the whole world
Rom_5:6 Christ died for the ungodly
2Pe_2:1 false teachers
Eph_5:25 the Church
Gal_2:20 gave Himself for me. {Paul / me}

1Ti_4:10 Savior of all men, especially of those who believe
Note the two groups mentioned here "all men" which would include the non believers and the ones that latter actually did believe.

I know this a really hard concept for you to understand but the bible is clear Christ died for all humanity so that all could be saved but it is only those that actually believe in Him that will be saved.

You are holding onto one verse and ignoring the rest of the bible. The bible is the authority not your calvinism. Your philosophy is keeping you from knowing the real Christ Jesus and salvation through Him. You continue to ignore the bible at your peril.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You must not get this wrong. The way is narrow and few find it we are told by one who knows. The way requires squeezing through this narrow way. It is not broad enough to accommodate two different ways of getting through but if God takes you through it doesn't really matter how broad or narrow it is and this information about it being narrow amounts to nothing in your confused world.

The way is the way of repentance of sins and faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ and the way is open. Whoever will may enter. However, if God does not open our hearts to receive the Gospel, no one would ever find it. Psalms 14:2-3; John 3:19; 5:40; Romans 3:10-11 etc. It is described as narrow because sinful men and women cannot enter laden down by their sins. But I see nothing that prohibits either Arminians or Calvinists from entering.

 

[Silverhair]

Who generates the faith, God or man? You point to man when you use the word "they." Thus you teach works salvation apart from grace.


So he won't save a person enslaved in sin unless that person gives expressed permission to God that He can save them?

You make man greater than God in power and authority.


First, you have a dead in sins person making a choice about being made alive. You ignore the words "But God."
Second, apparently Jesus atonement didn't pay for the sin of unbelief in your thinking since their choice to not believe is the only thing that causes God not to believe.
Third, you make Paul's words of no importance: "And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?" (Romans 10:14)
Since you place rejection as the only cause, you also must advocate never sharing the gospel so that no one has the opportunity to choose to not believe. No knowledge equals no choice equals salvation because no rejection. Do you see your error?

Austin your constant strawman arguments are so unbiblical as to be insulting. You think that your false theology of calvinism is true and that it should overrule the bible. Paul says faith is not a work, which you have been told numerous times, but then again why would you believe the bible it does fit with your philosophy.

Get past your errant theology and actually trust what the bible says, not what you want it to say.

 

[MrW]

He who believes is not condemned. He who does not believe is condemned already.

Jesus died for ALL SIN for ALL people "the world John 3: 16), except for the sin of unbelief.

why do churches make this so difficult?

He died for the sin of unbelief too. You have to repent of the sin of unbelief and then believe, same as any other sin.

 

[Brightfame52]

He who believes is not condemned. He who does not believe is condemned already.

Jesus died for ALL SIN for ALL people "the world John 3: 16), except for the sin of unbelief.

why do churches make this so difficult?

If you believe Jesus died for all the sins of all men, and yet some men perish in their sins in unbelief, then you deny the saving efficacy of Christs death.

 

[Brightfame52]

BF I will put this in simple language for you, try to understand.

What does the bible tells us about who Christ died for?
1Ti_2:5-6 who gave Himself a ransom for all
Heb_2:9 might taste death for everyone
Joh_3:15 whoever believes in Him
Joh_3:17 the world
1Jn_2:2 sins of the whole world
Rom_5:6 Christ died for the ungodly
2Pe_2:1 false teachers
Eph_5:25 the Church
Gal_2:20 gave Himself for me. {Paul / me}

1Ti_4:10 Savior of all men, especially of those who believe
Note the two groups mentioned here "all men" which would include the non believers and the ones that latter actually did believe.

I know this a really hard concept for you to understand but the bible is clear Christ died for all humanity so that all could be saved but it is only those that actually believe in Him that will be saved.

You are holding onto one verse and ignoring the rest of the bible. The bible is the authority not your calvinism. Your philosophy is keeping you from knowing the real Christ Jesus and salvation through Him. You continue to ignore the bible at your peril.

Your understanding has put you in a bad place, you are denying what scripture affirms, that those whom Christ died, His death healed them, saved them 1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were heale

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If you believe Jesus died for all the sins of all men, and yet some men perish in their sins in unbelief, then you deny the saving efficacy of Christs death.

Again, read Jesus words

He who BELIEVES is not condemned
He who DOES NOT BELIEVE is condemned already

All have sinned and fall short. Jesus died for every sin.

He did not die for the sin of unbelief. If he did then everyone would be saved..