Those who deny the general redemption.

[Eternally Grateful]

He died for the sin of unbelief too. You have to repent of the sin of unbelief and then believe, same as any other sin.

to me, if he died for that sin, then no one can be judged for that sin, because judgment had been paid.

A person has until they die to repent and change that unbelief to belief. the moment they do. they are given eternal life.

if they die in the state of unbelief, their names are erased from the book of life

 

[Brightfame52]

Again, read Jesus words

He who BELIEVES is not condemned
He who DOES NOT BELIEVE is condemned already

All have sinned and fall short. Jesus died for every sin.

He did not die for the sin of unbelief. If he did then everyone would be saved..

If you believe Jesus died for all the sins of all men, and yet some men perish in their sins in unbelief, then you deny the saving efficacy of Christs death.. Yes He died for the sin of unbelief, if He didn't how could people be saved ? Unbelief would dam everybody since all are born in unbelief.

 

[Brightfame52]

to me, if he died for that sin, then no one can be judged for that sin, because judgment had been paid.

A person has until they die to repent and change that unbelief to belief. the moment they do. they are given eternal life.

if they die in the state of unbelief, their names are erased from the book of life

So if according to you Christ didnt die for unbelief, then you are saved by doing something Christ didnt die for, you are your own saviour.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If you believe Jesus died for all the sins of all men, and yet some men perish in their sins in unbelief, then you deny the saving efficacy of Christs death.. Yes He died for the sin of unbelief, if He didn't how could people be saved ? Unbelief would dam everybody since all are born in unbelief.

My friend, Please stop misrepresenting me

They did not die for their sins, I never stated that. they died because of unbelief.

you keep adding the word sin. Jesus did not use the word sin in John 3

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So if according to you Christ didnt die for unbelief, then you are saved by doing something Christ didnt die for, you are your own savior.

You are born dead. born in unbelief.

when you repent, You have stopped unbelieving, and have become a believer. and you move from a condemned state to a not condemned state

 

[Brightfame52]

eternally grateful

My friend, Please stop misrepresenting me

Friend, Im not doing that, I going by what you are typing on this thread.

They did not die for their sins, I never stated that. they died because of unbelief.

Didnt you say Christ didnt die for unbelief ? I can provide the quote if need be.

you keep adding the word sin. Jesus did not use the word sin in John 3

And that suppose to mean what ?

 

[Brightfame52]

You are born dead. born in unbelief.

when you repent, You have stopped unbelieving, and have become a believer. and you move from a condemned state to a not condemned state

So you believe as a spiritually dead sinner, you stop being a unbeliever and become a believer. So you save yourself from unbelief from a spiritually dead state of unbelief. Then you become your own saviour.

Jesus saves people from unbelief, and gives them repentance. You apparently dont need Jesus for that right ?

Then you say by what you did, you moved moved yourself from a condemned state to a not condemned state. Again you saved yourself.

Lol, you take all the Glory from God , who alone saves sinners from condemnation, from unbelief, from impenitence. You should be eternally grateful to yourself friend !

 

[Eternally Grateful]

eternally grateful



Friend, Im not doing that, I going by what you are typing on this thread.



Didnt you say Christ didnt die for unbelief ? I can provide the quote if need be.



And that suppose to mean what ?

there you are being dishonest again.

since when does the word unbelief = the word sin.

You claimed I said people die in their sins. I never said that..

 

[Brightfame52]

there you are being dishonest again.

since when does the word unbelief = the word sin.

You claimed I said people die in their sins. I never said that..

Im going by what you say..and you said a lot of things, reread everything you have posted in this exchange.

 

[AustinC]

In Jesus own words

He who believes is NOT CONDEMNED
He who does not believe IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, Because they HAVE NOT BELIEVED

so your argument is with him. not me

I have no argument with scripture. But you do.
*Romans 9:18-33*
So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” And as Isaiah predicted, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, we would have been like Sodom and become like Gomorrah.” What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

Belief is not a work my friend. This fatalistic view is nonsensical. I am not believing in my works. I am entrusting my soul to God and his work and his promise. I can not take credit or boast in myself. I can only boast in God who saved me.

You place your capacity to believe before God makes you alive. That makes you the cause agent of your own salvation and God the effected being who is obligated to save you based on your choice.
Therefore, you ignore this phrase:
"But God..."

 

[Brightfame52]

eternally grateful

He who believes is NOT CONDEMNED

Thats correct, thats why he believes, he wasnt condemned by the law since Christ died for him or her.

Its only those folk who live and die in unbelief who were already condemned by the law since Christ didnt die for them.

Believing in Christ is only the privilege of people Christ died for. So when a person believes, it means they were not condemned, because Christ took their condemnation away by dying for them.

 

[AustinC]

first off.

You have a man made alive while still in sin. This causes God to go against his own character.

the penalty of sin is death, Until that penalty is removed, the person is dead

Passing from death to life is a process called regeneration

Having ones sins forgiven or remitted is called justification.

hence Justification MUST precede sanctification.

as for never heard.. Romans 1 answers that question. No one has an excuse. because God has shown himself to everyone.

*Ephesians 2:4-5 shows you your error.

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

God saved you by grace alone.
God made you alive, even while you were still dead.
God gave you the gift of faith.
God justified you by faith alone.
God sanctifies you daily, making you a vessel of righteousness.
God will glorify you when He brings you into His presence.

Notice what God does and also notice that you don't ever initiate anything by your so-called "free will." God does not need your cooperation in order to save you and your rebellion will not stop Him from saving you. You were His child from before the foundation of the world and in due time He called you by name. You were chosen.

 

[AustinC]

You must not get this wrong. The way is narrow and few find it we are told by one who knows. The way requires squeezing through this narrow way. It is not broad enough to accommodate two different ways of getting through but if God takes you through it doesn't really matter how broad or narrow it is and this information about it being narrow amounts to nothing in your confused world.

Works salvation by JD731.

Read this and tell me what it means: "But God..."

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Im going by what you say..and you said a lot of things, reread everything you have posted in this exchange.

This is what I said

My friend, Please stop misrepresenting me

They did not die for their sins, I never stated that. they died because of unbelief.

you keep adding the word sin. Jesus did not use the word sin in John 3

Your the one who has a reading issue my friend.. Not me

 

[Eternally Grateful]

*Ephesians 2:4-5 shows you your error.

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

God saved you by grace alone.
God made you alive, even while you were still dead.
God gave you the gift of faith.
God justified you by faith alone.
God sanctifies you daily, making you a vessel of righteousness.
God will glorify you when He brings you into His presence.

Notice what God does and also notice that you don't ever initiate anything by your so-called "free will." God does not need your cooperation in order to save you and your rebellion will not stop Him from saving you. You were His child from before the foundation of the world and in due time He called you by name. You were chosen.

You need to keep reading

God saved us buy grace THROUGH FAITH.

Without faith. there is no salvation. there is no rebirth, their is no anything. A person is still in unbelief, and as such, condemned.

 

[Brightfame52]

This is what I said



Your the one who has a reading issue my friend.. Not me

You being evasive, you said many things.

So, are you an universalist ? Do you believe everyone will eventually be saved ? If not why not ?

 

[AustinC]

You need to keep reading

God saved us buy grace THROUGH FAITH.

Without faith. there is no salvation. there is no rebirth, their is no anything. A person is still in unbelief, and as such, condemned.

The faith is a gift given to us as a result of the gracious salvation provided to us "even while were dead in our sins." You cannot boast about your gracious salvation or your gracious faith, given to you by God.
Saved by grace, through faith, still necessitates grace first, faith second. You must acknowledge "But God..."
Notice there is no "but you" in the passage. It's nowhere in scripture, let alone this passage. So, stop propping up "you" as the one to look at in regard to salvation.

 

[MrW]

If you believe Jesus died for all the sins of all men, and yet some men perish in their sins in unbelief, then you deny the saving efficacy of Christs death.

No I don’t. Salvation is not automatic. It’s conditional. Read the first chapter of John’s Gospel. Pay close attention to vs. 10 through 13.

 

[Brightfame52]

austin

The faith is a gift given to us as a result of the gracious salvation provided to us "even while were dead in our sins." You cannot boast about your gracious salvation or your gracious faith, given to you by God.

Agreed. Most in christendom believe their natural faith contributes to salvation. Thats works

 

[Brightfame52]

No I don’t. Salvation is not automatic. It’s conditional. Read the first chapter of John’s Gospel. Pay close attention to vs. 10 through 13.

Salvation was conditional, on the Faithful obedience of Christ.Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

If you mean conditioned on man, thats works, merit !