Those who deny the general redemption.

[MrW]

I didn’t say “conditioned on” man’s works.

I said it’s conditional, because the Bible says it’s conditional.

John 1:9-13; 3:14-21; compare Hebrews 3:18-19; 4:1-2.

 

[AustinC]

I didn’t say “conditioned on” man’s works.

I said it’s conditional, because the Bible says it’s conditional.

John 1:9-13; 3:14-21; compare Hebrews 3:18-19; 4:1-2.

I'm sure you are unaware that none of your references support a conditional salvation.

 

[Brightfame52]

I didn’t say “conditioned on” man’s works.

I said it’s conditional, because the Bible says it’s conditional.

John 1:9-13; 3:14-21; compare Hebrews 3:18-19; 4:1-2.

Well speak up, conditioned on what ?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You being evasive, you said many things.

So, are you an universalist ? Do you believe everyone will eventually be saved ? If not why not ?

Your the one being evasive my friend.

You claimed i said people die in their sins. I did not

I have proven you misrepresented me multiple times. And you keep trying to blame it on me

You also know I am not a universalist..

Repent of misrepresenting me, or keep denying it. And show you are unrepentant

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The faith is a gift given to us as a result of the gracious salvation provided to us "even while were dead in our sins." You cannot boast about your gracious salvation or your gracious faith, given to you by God.
Saved by grace, through faith, still necessitates grace first, faith second. You must acknowledge "But God..."
Notice there is no "but you" in the passage. It's nowhere in scripture, let alone this passage. So, stop propping up "you" as the one to look at in regard to salvation.

Yes grace is a gift..

But personal salvation is a result of that faith. Because without Gods grace all the faith in the world would not matter.

 

[AustinC]

Yes grace is a gift..

But personal salvation is a result of that faith. Because without Gods grace all the faith in the world would not matter.

Grace is the cause agent. Faith is the effect of the cause.
Without God's grace, there is no saving faith in this world.
God is the cause. Faith is the effect of God causing.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Grace is the cause agent. Faith is the effect of the cause.
Without God's grace, there is no saving faith in this world.
God is the cause. Faith is the effect of God causing.

You still have to CHOSE to have faith.

God ain’t going to force it on you.

 

[Brightfame52]

E G

You also know I am not a universalist..

Not really, but now I will take your word for it. So if you dont believe in universalism, which is good, and yet you believe Christ died for everyone without exception, I suppose, then why are people Christ died for going to hell, lost in their sins and unbelief ? Jesus said to some Jn 8:24
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

It appears to me that unbelief and dying in your sins [plural] go hand in hand.

 

[Brightfame52]

You still have to CHOSE to have faith.

God ain’t going to force it on you.

You have to choose to have Faith ? Who a spiritually dead sinner, who cant please God in the flesh ? No God doesnt force people to have Faith, He gives them Faith in the New Birth. Otherwise man cant please God in the flesh.

 

[Silverhair]

Your understanding has put you in a bad place, you are denying what scripture affirms, that those whom Christ died, His death healed them, saved them 1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were heale

BF you keep running to the same verse as if it overrides the rest of scripture. The fact that you will not trust scripture is your problem. The truth has been pointed out to you over and over again but you are stuck in your calvinism.

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. Notice that reconciled & saved are two different thinks.

Now at this point your saying it was the elect that were reconciled but the bible disagrees with you.
2Co_5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

So unless you are indeed a universalist then you have to agree that there is a condition for those that have been reconciled {the world} so that they can be saved. There is Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." But why would the call on Christ so as to be saved you ask?
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? They need someone to tell them about salvation through faith in Christ Jesus and then they can choose to trust or reject the message.
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

 

[Silverhair]

You have to choose to have Faith ? Who a spiritually dead sinner, who cant please God in the flesh ? No God doesnt force people to have Faith, He gives them Faith in the New Birth. Otherwise man cant please God in the flesh.

And you still ignore scripture Ephesians 1:13 is clear we have to hear and believe before we are saved.

 

[AustinC]

You still have to CHOSE to have faith.

God ain’t going to force it on you.

Where is your assertion ever stated in the Bible? Where does God say "you have to choose to have faith before I can save you"?

Show me the verses that make this demand before God can save.

 

[Brightfame52]

silverhair

BF you keep running to the same verse as if it overrides the rest of scripture. The fact that you will not trust scripture is your problem. The truth has been pointed out to you over and over again but you are stuck in your calvinism.

1 Pet 2:24 is in agreement with scripture, unfortunately you dont understand scripture friend.

I will include Vs 25

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Because Christs death heals, saves, it returns them He died for unto the Shepherd and Bishop of their souls.

The word returned is the greek word epistrephō:

to cause to return, to bring back

1. to the love and obedience of God
   

Also the word in the verse is in the passive voice, which means they are being returned, they are being acted upon which causes them to return to God, to their Shepherd. This is because Christ died for them and healed them, saved them,and gives them a conversion experience. . Now does this occur with all men exception ? NOPE because Christ didn't die for all men without exception. He didnt die for none that arent converted, returned to the Shepherd, after they went astry Isa 53:6

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Now all them, the Sheep who in adam turned everyone his own way, because of their sins laid upon Him, His stripes, they are returned hallelujah ! What a Saviour !

 

[Brightfame52]

silverhair

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. Notice that reconciled & saved are two different thinks.

Teaching the same thing. Those who have been reconciled by His Death SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE !

So again, only them who are saved by His Life did He die for. Saved here means they are healed, converted. His Life is His Resurrection Life He gives them with quickening, He quickens all who He died for, He is a quickening Spirit 1 Cor 15:45


And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Quickening here is the greek word zōopoieō:

1. to produce alive, begat or bear living young
   
   
2. to cause to live, make alive, give life
   

It means to cause to live, so they are saved by His Life being quickened from spiritual death, and converted.

Now unless you believe in universalism, Christ could not have died for everyone without exception, because if He did, #1 they all would be reconciled by His death and # 2 Saved by His Life, meaning quickened by His resurrected life !

 

[Brightfame52]

silverhair

Now at this point your saying it was the elect that were reconciled but the bible disagrees with you.
2Co_5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

That world is the elect, and that world has no sin charged to it. Rom 8:33
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

In fact, that world is Justified from all sin, God wont chare it with none. Now you know thats not everyone without exception unless you believe in universalism. Are you a universalist now ?

 

[Brightfame52]

silverhair

So unless you are indeed a universalist then you have to agree that there is a condition for those that have been reconciled {the world} so that they can be saved. There is Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." But why would the call on Christ so as to be saved you ask?
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? They need someone to tell them about salvation through faith in Christ Jesus and then they can choose to trust or reject the message.
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

You just so confused, but Im not going to break down all those scriptures, Im just going to say this which is obvious, you flat out deny the saving healing death of Christ 1 Pet 2:24, thats actually unbelief !

 

[Brightfame52]

And you still ignore scripture Ephesians 1:13 is clear we have to hear and believe before we are saved.

I dont ignore it. If anyone ignores it is you. You dont believe in the saving work of Christ. How were they healed/saved according to 1 Peter 2:24, and what was said to happen in Vs 25 ?

 

[Silverhair]

Where is your assertion ever stated in the Bible? Where does God say "you have to choose to have faith before I can save you"?

Show me the verses that make this demand before God can save.

Try Ephesians 1:13 or Romans 10:9-10. Austin you are such a putz. When you know that you do not have a leg to stand on you demand someone quote the words you ask for. You just continue to show that you do not really trust the bible.

But I do notice that you will twist scripture if you think it will support you. Bad form for a Christian.

 

[Silverhair]

silverhair

1 Pet 2:24 is in agreement with scripture, unfortunately you dont understand scripture friend.

I will include Vs 25

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Because Christs death heals, saves, it returns them He died for unto the Shepherd and Bishop of their souls.

The word returned is the greek word epistrephō:

to cause to return, to bring back

1. to the love and obedience of God

Also the word in the verse is in the passive voice, which means they are being returned, they are being acted upon which causes them to return to God, to their Shepherd. This is because Christ died for them and healed them, saved them,and gives them a conversion experience. . Now does this occur with all men exception ? NOPE because Christ didn't die for all men without exception. He didnt die for none that arent converted, returned to the Shepherd, after they went astry Isa 53:6

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Now all them, the Sheep who in adam turned everyone his own way, because of their sins laid upon Him, His stripes, they are returned hallelujah ! What a Saviour !

I am always amazed at how hard you work to deny scripture, but then again you are a calvinist.

1Pe_1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

The atonement has paid/covered the sins of mankind but one is only saved by God after they trust in the risen Christ. Your theology requires that your saved by His death as you do not believe in Him, the risen Christ, until you are given faith.

Because you follow a false philosophy rather than the bible you struggle to understand scripture. I find it amazing how you continue to read so much into the the text. And then ignore clear text that you do not like.

 

[Silverhair]

silverhair



Teaching the same thing. Those who have been reconciled by His Death SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE !

So again, only them who are saved by His Life did He die for. Saved here means they are healed, converted. His Life is His Resurrection Life He gives them with quickening, He quickens all who He died for, He is a quickening Spirit 1 Cor 15:45


And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Quickening here is the greek word zōopoieō:

1. 
   
   
   • to produce alive, begat or bear living young
   • to cause to live, make alive, give life

It means to cause to live, so they are saved by His Life being quickened from spiritual death, and converted.

Now unless you believe in universalism, Christ could not have died for everyone without exception, because if He did, #1 they all would be reconciled by His death and # 2 Saved by His Life, meaning quickened by His resurrected life !

BF like it or not the bible says over and over that Christ came to save the lost ungodly sinners. So unless you think that most of the world does not fit into those categories you are denying scripture. Your calvinist theology does not overrule the bible. The bible is the authority, why do you not accept this fact.

When the bible says Christ was the ransom for all you think it means ransom for the calvinist elect. So for you the bible seems to just have suggestions as your authority is your calvinis philosophy.