SolaScriptura
New Member
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
(1 John 5:7)
LOOKY THAR! 3 different names, yet ONE GOD.
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Three People in the God head??? It is what the Bible teaches!
- Thread starter ONENESS
- Start date
(1 John 5:7)
LOOKY THAR! 3 different names, yet ONE GOD.
SolaScriptura
New Member
What are they then? Oh wait...as concerning names: El Shaddai, Jehovah, Jesus - different names; are they different Gods?
Jerry Moon
New Member
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
(1 John 5:7)
LOOKY THAR! 3 different names, yet ONE GOD.[/QB][/QUOTE]
Isa 9:6
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
KJV
Hmmm... one of Jesus's names Isaia said would be Father. The Word? Can one seperate their word from themselves?
And what about the Holy Ghost?
John 14:18
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
KJV
Jesus promised not to leave them comfortless, speaking of the Holy Ghost. And still refering to the Holy Ghost, he said "I" will come to you. When a person receives the Holy Ghost, it is Christ living in that individual.
I think it is strange that debates continue vehemently concerning the Godhead.
I have heard every conceivable argument about the Trinity VS the Oneness theology.
Here is a couple of points that you can argue about.
To the Oneness believers: Explain why the salutations of the Epistles begin with God the FAther and the Lord Jesus Christ.
To the Triniatrians: Show one scripture that proves there are three persons. You can quote scriptures that mention three but it does not say three what. Matthew nor John proves three persons. It proves three but three what?
Jesus said God is a spirit. He was talking about the Father. So by what Jesus said the Father is spirit not a person. Also scripture point blank declares that Jesus is the only bodily manifestation of the Godhead.
The term Elohim at times means plural but plural what?
Also there is not scripture that proves the Holy Ghost is a person. Do not even go to John to try and prove that because Jesus said that he would send another comforter which if you study this passage carefully he was talking about his spirit.
Jesus said he would come to them but we know that did not mean bodily.
Roman Catholic apologetics admit to the fact that the doctrine of the Trinity is man made that it did not exist until the Roman Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. and even then they only believed in the Father and son as separate persons. The third person was added at the Council of Trent.
Yet the Oneness message is man made also because its teachings did not exist until the year 1918 in its present day form. Yes people taught modalism but it was different.
In studying both of these doctrines and looking at history of the early teachings before Nicea it seems the Early church believed in God the FAther who was the God of the Old TEstament, Jehovah who was spirit and the Son of God Jesus who was God manifested in the Flesh or the essence of God manifested in the flesh.
i don't find anywhere where anyone debated this or argued that but the early church was too pre-occupied with growing the church and winning souls.
I don't believe a persons salvation is based on what they believe about the Godhead.
I have heard every conceivable argument about the Trinity VS the Oneness theology.
Here is a couple of points that you can argue about.
To the Oneness believers: Explain why the salutations of the Epistles begin with God the FAther and the Lord Jesus Christ.
To the Triniatrians: Show one scripture that proves there are three persons. You can quote scriptures that mention three but it does not say three what. Matthew nor John proves three persons. It proves three but three what?
Jesus said God is a spirit. He was talking about the Father. So by what Jesus said the Father is spirit not a person. Also scripture point blank declares that Jesus is the only bodily manifestation of the Godhead.
The term Elohim at times means plural but plural what?
Also there is not scripture that proves the Holy Ghost is a person. Do not even go to John to try and prove that because Jesus said that he would send another comforter which if you study this passage carefully he was talking about his spirit.
Jesus said he would come to them but we know that did not mean bodily.
Roman Catholic apologetics admit to the fact that the doctrine of the Trinity is man made that it did not exist until the Roman Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. and even then they only believed in the Father and son as separate persons. The third person was added at the Council of Trent.
Yet the Oneness message is man made also because its teachings did not exist until the year 1918 in its present day form. Yes people taught modalism but it was different.
In studying both of these doctrines and looking at history of the early teachings before Nicea it seems the Early church believed in God the FAther who was the God of the Old TEstament, Jehovah who was spirit and the Son of God Jesus who was God manifested in the Flesh or the essence of God manifested in the flesh.
i don't find anywhere where anyone debated this or argued that but the early church was too pre-occupied with growing the church and winning souls.
I don't believe a persons salvation is based on what they believe about the Godhead.
Originally posted by hrhema:
Yet the Oneness message is man made also because its teachings did not exist until the year 1918 in its present day form. Yes people taught modalism but it was different.
Man made? Didn't exist until 1918? How is it different from 'The Church' that was born on the Day of Pentecost. They believed in One God, just as we Apostolics do today. As far as that goes, the belief of One God has always been...any Jewish person will tell you that. It's just that they don't see Jesus as that one God...and neither do most of the world. I don't blame the Jew, I wouldn't believe in three gods either.I'd rather be a Jew and believe in my One God than to split Him up into three persons.
MEE
Originally posted by MEE:
Originally posted by hrhema:
Yet the Oneness message is man made also because its teachings did not exist until the year 1918 in its present day form. Yes people taught modalism but it was different.
Man made? Didn't exist until 1918? How is it different from 'The Church' that was born on the Day of Pentecost. They believed in One God, just as we Apostolics do today. As far as that goes, the belief of One God has always been...any Jewish person will tell you that. It's just that they don't see Jesus as that one God...and neither do most of the world. I don't blame the Jew, I wouldn't believe in three gods either.I'd rather be a Jew and believe in my One God than to split Him up into three persons.
MEE
Originally posted by MEE:
Thank God for Apostolics!!!1Originally posted by hrhema:
Yet the Oneness message is man made also because its teachings did not exist until the year 1918 in its present day form. Yes people taught modalism but it was different.
Man made? Didn't exist until 1918? How is it different from 'The Church' that was born on the Day of Pentecost. They believed in One God, just as we Apostolics do today. As far as that goes, the belief of One God has always been...any Jewish person will tell you that. It's just that they don't see Jesus as that one God...and neither do most of the world. I don't blame the Jew, I wouldn't believe in three gods either.I'd rather be a Jew and believe in my One God than to split Him up into three persons.
MEE
Welcome to the board Mr. Moon
You need to study your history better. The work of Basil the Great and Gregory focused on the relationship of the Holy Spirit. Also Luther acknowledged Holy Spirit as the third person of the Trinity and he died before the finish of the council of trent. Go back and study your history before you make any claims.
[ June 10, 2002, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Chemnitz ]
trying2understand
New Member
Can you offer evidence of the above, or are you merely speaking through your hat?
False witness is a serious matter.
oops helps if I think before I type. I had something else on my mind when I posted this and got the two mixed up. However, my point still stands when Jesus says "I will come to you" He is not refering to the Holy Spirit. Everytime Jesus mentions the Holy Spirit, Jesus refers to him in the third person.
SolaScriptura
New Member
Ok, MEE, maybe the problem here is your definition of 'person' differs from ours? Is a person to you only "a human being"? Please define 'person' and 'manifestation.'
Jerry Moon
New Member
It would help if you got the referent right. Jesus is in no way refering to the Holy Spirit, when he says "I". Rather He is refering to us joining Him in heaven</font>[/QUOTE]It doesn't say that. It clearly says that He will come to us.
Jerry Moon
New Member
I think that it would do both side good to relize that neither the words Oneness, or Trinty are in the Bible... it should be boiled down to simply, what does the Bible say?