Three People in the God head??? It is what the Bible teaches!

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Are you going to let chemitz take that away from you. Look You have shown me stuff I have never understood. You have shown me stuff that I have never been taught in 4 years in one post and I have shown you something in one sentence that you understood that Chemitz has been trying to figure out all his life. Dont let him take that away from you.

I have understood the Bible since the time that I could read. My recent studies have only led me to greater insight and to a sure knowledge that oneness theologians have missed the point. The problem is you are relying on evidence that does not exist. The Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is not Jesus. Jesus made it quite clear that he is the Son, and that He is not the Holy Spirit, nor is He the Father.</font>[/QUOTE]</font>

• Jesus is A Name do you or do you not agree? </font>
• Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Aunt, Uncle, Brother, Mother, sister etc. are not names. Do you agree?</font>
• Do you believe that there is Power in the Name of Jesus? </font>
• At the mention of "God" is every knee going to bow? Is every tongue going to confess?
  </font>
• At the mention of "Father" is every knee going to bow? Is every tongue going to confess? </font>
• At the mention of "Son" is every knee going to bow? Is every tongue going to confess? </font>
• At the mention of "Holy Ghost" is every knee going to bow? Is every tongue going to confess?
  </font>
• At what Name is every Knee going to bow, and at what Name is every tongue going to confess?
  </font>

Jehovah spoke through Isaiah and said (Isaiah 45:23)"I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
That prophecy was fullfilled in (Phill 2:9-11) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow of things in heaven and things in earh and things under the earth And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of God the Father.
There is so much more in the Name of Jesus that you guys do not and try not to see. It is in Scripture, it is in Red.

Jesus made it quite clear that he is the Son, and that He is not the Holy Spirit, nor is He the Father

John 14 Thomas said to the Lord we do not know where you are going, how can we know the way? And jesus said I am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If you had known me ye should have known my Father also and from henceforth ye know him and have seen him. And Chemitz said Lord show us the Father, and it sufficeth us and Jesus Slapped him in his face hit him over the head with the fryeing pan and said Have I been with you so long that you still dont now me. He that hath seen me hath seen the Father and how sayest thou then show us the Father?

Jesus is not the Holy Ghost?

And I will pray the Father and he shall give you another Comforter that he may abide with you forever. Even the Spirit of truth whom the world cannot receive b/c it seeth him not, neither knoweth him; but ye know him (speaking of the comforter) for he dwelleth with you (who dwells with them? Jesus) and shall be in you. (hmmmm looks as if Jesus is going to be in them). I will not leave you comfortless I will come to you Judas said unto him how is it that thou wilt manifest (not send another person but manifest) unto us and not unto the world? and Jesus went onto say But the Comforter which is the Holy Ghost whom the Father will send in my Nmae, he shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance what soever I have said unto you.

In that whole chapter Jesus is spilling himself letting his deciples know that Ther Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all the same person. Chemitz how can you say that Jesus did not say he was the comforter that would dwell in them? Shame on you

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other for there is none other name under heaven given among men wherby we must be saved.

Let me close by asking you this. Could you each give me one reason why the Name is so important?

God bless

[ June 11, 2002, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: ONENESS ]

 

[Chemnitz]

Jesus is A Name do you or do you not agree?

Yes Jesus is a name.

Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Aunt, Uncle, Brother, Mother, sister etc. are not names. Do you agree

I disagree, Holy Ghost is the name of the third person of the Trinity and that the Father is the name of the First person of the Trinity as revealed by Jesus and the Apostles.

Do you believe that there is Power in the Name of Jesus?

Yes because as the second person of the trinity(aka The Son), Jesus is God.

And I will pray the Father and he shall give you another Comforter that he may abide with you forever. Even the Spirit of truth whom the world cannot receive b/c it seeth him not, neither knoweth him; but ye know him (speaking of the comforter) for he dwelleth with you (who dwells with them? Jesus) and shall be in you. (hmmmm looks as if Jesus is going to be in them). I will not leave you comfortless I will come to you Judas said unto him how is it that thou wilt manifest (not send another person but manifest) unto us and not unto the world? and Jesus went onto say But the Comforter which is the Holy Ghost whom the Father will send in my Nmae, he shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance what soever I have said unto you.

Can you say selective reading, how convient it is that you skipped over "another comforter." Second your interpretation is flawed because with in the same passage Jesus only refers to Himself as 'I', but when He refers either to The Father or The Holy Ghost it is in the third person. Third, Jesus did manifest Himself to the Apostles after the resurrection. Also with in the same verse you have the plurality in that both Jesus and the Father will love the person. Also you have to remember the Apostle's did not really know who Jesus was at that time. It is a reaccuring theme in the Gospels, that it did not dawn on the Apostle's that Jesus really is the Son of God. The Holy Spirit was there and had been there from the beginning for it was He who guided the authors of the Bible, but since the Apostle's did not fully comprehend what Jesus had been telling them it is fully possible that they did know him and did not know him at the same time.

[ June 11, 2002, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Chemnitz ]

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Jesus is A Name do you or do you not agree?

Yes Jesus is a name.

Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Aunt, Uncle, Brother, Mother, sister etc. are not names. Do you agree

I disagree, Holy Ghost is the name of the third person of the Trinity and that the Father is the name of the First person of the Trinity as revealed by Jesus and the Apostles.

Do you believe that there is Power in the Name of Jesus?

Yes because as the second person of the trinity(aka The Son), Jesus is God.

And I will pray the Father and he shall give you another Comforter that he may abide with you forever. Even the Spirit of truth whom the world cannot receive b/c it seeth him not, neither knoweth him; but ye know him (speaking of the comforter) for he dwelleth with you (who dwells with them? Jesus) and shall be in you. (hmmmm looks as if Jesus is going to be in them). I will not leave you comfortless I will come to you Judas said unto him how is it that thou wilt manifest (not send another person but manifest) unto us and not unto the world? and Jesus went onto say But the Comforter which is the Holy Ghost whom the Father will send in my Nmae, he shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance what soever I have said unto you.

Can you say selective reading, how convient it is that you skipped over "another comforter." Second your interpretation is flawed because with in the same passage Jesus only refers to Himself as 'I', but when He refers either to The Father or The Holy Ghost it is in the third person. Third, Jesus did manifest Himself to the Apostles after the resurrection. Also with in the same verse you have the plurality in that both Jesus and the Father will love the person. Also you have to remember the Apostle's did not really know who Jesus was at that time. It is a reaccuring theme in the Gospels, that it did not dawn on the Apostle's that Jesus really is the Son of God. The Holy Spirit was there and had been there from the beginning for it was He who guided the authors of the Bible, but since the Apostle's did not fully comprehend what Jesus had been telling them it is fully possible that they did know him and did not know him at the same time.</font>[/QUOTE]

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Aunt, Uncle, Brother, Mother, sister etc. are not names. Do you agree

I disagree, Holy Ghost is the name of the third person of the Trinity and that the Father is the name of the First person of the Trinity as revealed by Jesus and the Apostles. </font>[/QUOTE]So, what now does Jesus have two names. Is The "SON" the Name of Jesus?

Chemitz give up man you have a hole in the bottom of your bucket with this whole trinity theory[b/]

 

[Jerry Moon]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Three persons as in a play? A one man in a play might go back and put on a mask and come out as one person in the play, then go back and come out as another person... one man, but two, three or four persons... is this what you mean by three persons? This is the same thing that I mean when I say manifestations...

No because your manifestations could not exist at the same time, which we know they did.</font>[/QUOTE]Then your saying three people playing three different parts in a play?

 

[Jerry Moon]

Originally posted by Don:
Mr. Moon, it has been brought up many, many times before. Jesus, while walking on this earth, was God in the flesh; yet scripture records Him as saying "my Father in heaven who sent me."

Upon being baptized because His Father (our Father) required it, the heavens opened up, and a voice said, "This is my son, in whom I am well pleased."

Either God existed in Heaven at the same time as Jesus walked the earth, or God in the flesh "threw His voice" to give people the impression there was still a God in the heavens, and the same God in the flesh lied about who sent Him and where He was.

I have yet to see a Oneness Pentecostal reconcile this.

The Bible teaches that God is Omnipresent... that is, He is everywhere at once. It was no problem for God to be Christ and "still" be everywhere at once. It's like having a bottle of Oxygen. If you have a bottle of Oxygen, do you have all the Oxygen in the world in that bottle?

 

[Eric B]

"I will come to you" is spoken in the context of the Comforter coming and "I will not leave you comfortless", so this seems to mean that Jesus will be with them through the Spirit. It is more than just his future physical appearance, or bringing us to the kingdom at the end. The Holy Spirit was always there, but would be poured on the Church in a way as never before. This shows the unity of Father, Son and Spirit, and where one is, the others are also.
BUT, the fact that Christ would be "present" through the Spirit in them (as He goes back to the Father) shows there must be a distinction between Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, the only way "Jesus" could come and stay with them would be for His glorified body to come back to earth and remain here for the duration of the age.
So this shows Father, Son and Spirit are the same divine nature or essence. The oneness arguments assume (and would be valid if) we are teaching three divine natures.

 

[Chemnitz]

The Bible teaches that God is Omnipresent... that is, He is everywhere at once. It was no problem for God to be Christ and "still" be everywhere at once. It's like having a bottle of Oxygen. If you have a bottle of Oxygen, do you have all the Oxygen in the world in that bottle?

The Bible also teaches that Jesus had humbled himself and had for a time given up the full extent of His power, so how do you reconcile that. Not to mention the fact that Jesus speaks plainly about the existance of the other persons of God.

Then your saying three people playing three different parts in a play?

Although an oversimplification, it is something like that. Before we end up back where we began the three persons of God does not equate to three gods.

 

[Don]

"Do you have all the oxygen in the world in that bottle?"

Granted, most analogies are bad; this one is really bad.

What you just implied is that Jesus was not fully God in the flesh....

It was no problem for God to be Christ and "still" be everywhere at once.

Agreed. But that doesn't reconcile why He would talk to Himself in front of others, or refer to Himself as "this is my son" or "my father which is in heaven."

I believe Mr. Moon brought up 1 Timothy 3:16 (manifest in the flesh); allow me to ask you, and everyone else, to examine John 14:21.

The question is: What does the word "manifest" mean? Especially in the context in which it is used in John 14:21 and 1 Timothy 3:16?

[ June 11, 2002, 11:19 PM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

[Chemnitz]

The question is: What does the word "manifest" mean? Especially in the context in which it is used in John 14:21 and 1 Timothy 3:16?

Don, you just pointed out something absolutely brilliant, yet so simple I completely overlooked it.

Main Entry: 2manifest
Function: transitive verb
Date: 14th century
: to make evident or certain by showing or displaying

-meriam webster

εμφανιζω 1. To lay open to view
2. to provide information
BDAG

I can't believe I missed this, when He says that He will manifest Himself, He does not mean that He will appear. Rather He will make Himself known. Which means that who ever loves Him will know Him for who He is. It has nothing to do with the appearance of the Comforter.

 

[Don]

Waiting for Mr. Moon and others....

(and yes, it's the same Greek word in both verses)

[ June 12, 2002, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The question is: What does the word "manifest" mean? Especially in the context in which it is used in John 14:21 and 1 Timothy 3:16?

Don, you just pointed out something absolutely brilliant, yet so simple I completely overlooked it.

Main Entry: 2manifest
Function: transitive verb
Date: 14th century
: to make evident or certain by showing or displaying

-meriam webster

εμφανιζω 1. To lay open to view
2. to provide information
BDAG

I can't believe I missed this, when He says that He will manifest Himself, He does not mean that He will appear. Rather He will make Himself known. Which means that who ever loves Him will know Him for who He is. It has nothing to do with the appearance of the Comforter.</font>[/QUOTE]Jesus says, John 14:18: I will not leave you comfortless; I will come to you (19) yet a little while and the world seeth me no more but ye see me: b/c I live, ye shall live also. (20)At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I IN YOU (21) He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father and I will love him and will manifest myself to him.

Now Christ said that He would manifest himself to them. According to what you are saying the scripture would have to read "and the Holy Spirit will manifest myself to them".

Jesus is plainly stateing that He would make himself known to them. The HOly Spirit is not another Person, but is God himself.

1718 emphanizo {em-fan-id'-zo}
from 1717; TDNT - 9:7,1244; v

AV - inform 3, be manifest 2, appear 2, signify 1, show 1,
declare plainly 1; 10

1) to manifest, exhibit to view
2) to show one's self, come to view, appear, be manifest
3) to indicate, disclose, declare, make known

The Son is not another Person that God used to makehim self known.

John 10:31-33 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

The Jews had it a little backwards, He was not a man that had made himself God, but he was a God that had made himself man.

Godbless.

btw chemitz you never answered my questions. Is the Son the Name of Jesus?

 

[Chemnitz]

btw chemitz you never answered my questions. Is the Son the Name of Jesus?

The Son is a name that Jesus used to address Himself

If we are going to address unanswered questions how about the bunch you never answered that I asked? Like, did God die? How do you reconcile God's name as only Jesus when the Greek is quite clear that it is multiple names? Why does Jesus refer to the Father and the Holy Spirit in the third person and vis versa? Is Jesus a schizophrenic and not really God as the Oneness theologians say when they are forced to address Jesus's prayers?

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />btw chemitz you never answered my questions. Is the Son the Name of Jesus?

The Son is a name that Jesus used to address Himself

If we are going to address unanswered questions how about the bunch you never answered that I asked? Like, did God die? How do you reconcile God's name as only Jesus when the Greek is quite clear that it is multiple names? Why does Jesus refer to the Father and the Holy Spirit in the third person and vis versa? Is Jesus a schizophrenic and not really God as the Oneness theologians say when they are forced to address Jesus's prayers?</font>[/QUOTE]Did God Die? No God did not Die. His flesh died but God did not. God is a Spirit and the only way for God to die was for him to make himself a human body that had flesh and blood.

How do you reconcile God's name as only Jesus when the Greek is quite clear that it is multiple names? Are you speaking of Jehovah Jira (I am provider) Jehovah Shalom (I am your peace), Jehovah Nisse (I am your banner), Jehovah Rophe (I am your healer) and so on? What does the Name of Jesus Mean? Now how do I reconcile God's Name as only Jesus? I dont but the bible does in Acts 4:12 and Coll 3:17.

Why does Jesus refer to the Father and the Holy Spirit in the third person and vis versa? I dont know, Why does he refer to the Father, and Holy Ghost in the First Person as well?

Is Jesus a schizophrenic and not really God as the Oneness theologians say when they are forced to address Jesus's prayers? Well according the the Doctrine of the Trinity, Trinitarians make God out to be Schizophrenic. Reveiw your Translatoin of Gen 1:26. And God said let us Make man in our own Image. Is God Speaking to himself here? Isnt that schizophrenic. Have you ever worked on something and thought to yourself "Let's See" and you were the only one there. What does that phrase "Let's See" mean? Let us see. I know I have said it and I probably would go a bit farther to say you have. Does that make us Schizophrenic?

BTW the Son is not a name that Jesus used. It was a Title. Why is Jesus Called the Son of God? GO ahead and read Luke 1:35. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: THEREFORE also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the SON OF GOD

The Bible never uses the terms/phrase God the son. He is always referred to as the Son of God.

God bless

 

[Chemnitz]

No God did not Die. His flesh died but God did not. God is a Spirit and the only way for God to die was for him to make himself a human body that had flesh and blood.

So you are saying the Bible lied and that really wasn't God who died on the cross.

Are you speaking of Jehovah Jira (I am provider) Jehovah Shalom (I am your peace), Jehovah Nisse (I am your banner), Jehovah Rophe (I am your healer) and so on?

You might want to actually read what you are using as evidence. Those are the names of places and altars.

Now how do I reconcile God's Name as only Jesus? I dont but the bible does in Acts 4:12 and Coll 3:17.

Doesn't answer the question. Now stop dodging the question and actually answer it.

Well according the the Doctrine of the Trinity, Trinitarians make God out to be Schizophrenic. Reveiw your Translatoin of Gen 1:26. And God said let us Make man in our own Image. Is God Speaking to himself here? Isnt that schizophrenic.

Since we believe that God has three persons, he would not be schizophrenic. Particularly since we believe it is insight to the conversation between the three. So actually talking amoungst themselves doesn't a schizophrenic make.

Have you ever worked on something and thought to yourself "Let's See" and you were the only one there. What does that phrase "Let's See" mean? Let us see. I know I have said it and I probably would go a bit farther to say you have. Does that make us Schizophrenic?

Actually when I have said it there is always somebody else in mind, I am not talking to myself. If you are honest with yourself you will realize that when ever that phrase is used it is indirectly directed at somebody outside of yourself.

To be honest calling your interpretations of Jesus's prays and references to the other persons of the Trinity schizophrenia is just too kind. When it comes down to it, you all just go right ahead and deny the divinity of Christ. If you are honest with yourself you will realize that everytime you say that wasn't God on the cross or that wasn't really God praying you are denying that Jesus is God.

BTW the Son is not a name that Jesus used. It was a Title. Why is Jesus Called the Son of God? GO ahead and read Luke 1:35. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: THEREFORE also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the SON OF GOD

Then why did Jesus claim that The Son is a name??? Don't give me that line about name being singular, because the Greek does not support that answer. If you even want to attempt to refute that you are going to have to do it in the Greek.

Why does Jesus refer to the Father and the Holy Spirit in the third person and vis versa? I dont know, Why does he refer to the Father, and Holy Ghost in the First Person as well?

You don't know or do you just not to admit that I am right. He doesn't, He is very consistant in refering to the Father and the Holy Spirit in third person.

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />No God did not Die. His flesh died but God did not. God is a Spirit and the only way for God to die was for him to make himself a human body that had flesh and blood.

So you are saying the Bible lied and that really wasn't God who died on the cross.

Are you speaking of Jehovah Jira (I am provider) Jehovah Shalom (I am your peace), Jehovah Nisse (I am your banner), Jehovah Rophe (I am your healer) and so on?

You might want to actually read what you are using as evidence. Those are the names of places and altars.

Now how do I reconcile God's Name as only Jesus? I dont but the bible does in Acts 4:12 and Coll 3:17.

Doesn't answer the question. Now stop dodging the question and actually answer it.

Well according the the Doctrine of the Trinity, Trinitarians make God out to be Schizophrenic. Reveiw your Translatoin of Gen 1:26. And God said let us Make man in our own Image. Is God Speaking to himself here? Isnt that schizophrenic.

Since we believe that God has three persons, he would not be schizophrenic. Particularly since we believe it is insight to the conversation between the three. So actually talking amoungst themselves doesn't a schizophrenic make.

Have you ever worked on something and thought to yourself "Let's See" and you were the only one there. What does that phrase "Let's See" mean? Let us see. I know I have said it and I probably would go a bit farther to say you have. Does that make us Schizophrenic?

Actually when I have said it there is always somebody else in mind, I am not talking to myself. If you are honest with yourself you will realize that when ever that phrase is used it is indirectly directed at somebody outside of yourself.

To be honest calling your interpretations of Jesus's prays and references to the other persons of the Trinity schizophrenia is just too kind. When it comes down to it, you all just go right ahead and deny the divinity of Christ. If you are honest with yourself you will realize that everytime you say that wasn't God on the cross or that wasn't really God praying you are denying that Jesus is God.

BTW the Son is not a name that Jesus used. It was a Title. Why is Jesus Called the Son of God? GO ahead and read Luke 1:35. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: THEREFORE also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the SON OF GOD

Then why did Jesus claim that The Son is a name??? Don't give me that line about name being singular, because the Greek does not support that answer. If you even want to attempt to refute that you are going to have to do it in the Greek.

Why does Jesus refer to the Father and the Holy Spirit in the third person and vis versa? I dont know, Why does he refer to the Father, and Holy Ghost in the First Person as well?

You don't know or do you just not to admit that I am right. He doesn't, He is very consistant in refering to the Father and the Holy Spirit in third person.</font>[/QUOTE]So you are saying the Bible lied and that really wasn't God who died on the cross. [/QUOTE]

Yes it was God on the cross. But the Eternal Spirit of God that was in that Flesh did not die. The Son of God Died.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Are you speaking of Jehovah Jira (I am provider) Jehovah Shalom (I am your peace), Jehovah Nisse (I am your banner), Jehovah Rophe (I am your healer) and so on?

You might want to actually read what you are using as evidence. Those are the names of places and altars. </font>[/QUOTE]Look I dont know alot about this, I am studying it now, but Jehovah Jira, Shalom, Nisse were titles for what ever God was doing for them at that Time. When he provided for them he was called Jehovah Jira for example

Since we believe that God has three persons, he would not be schizophrenic. Particularly since we believe it is insight to the conversation between the three. So actually talking amoungst themselves doesn't a schizophrenic make.

Then what definition of One God are you useing.

To be honest calling your interpretations of Jesus's prays and references to the other persons of the Trinity schizophrenia is just too kind. When it comes down to it, you all just go right ahead and deny the divinity of Christ. If you are honest with yourself you will realize that everytime you say that wasn't God on the cross or that wasn't really God praying you are denying that Jesus is God.

Then everytime that you say God is Three Persons you really mean there are three Gods. God was praying to himself.

Then why did Jesus claim that The Son is a name??? Don't give me that line about name being singular, because the Greek does not support that answer. If you even want to attempt to refute that you are going to have to do it in the Greek.

He did not claim that son was a Name. He said baptize them in the NAME of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost

 

[Chemnitz]

Yes it was God on the cross. But the Eternal Spirit of God that was in that Flesh did not die. The Son of God Died.

Is it just me or does anybody else see the contradiction in Oneness's statement. Look at that statement honestly Oneness, you just denied that Jesus is God.

Look I dont know alot about this, I am studying it now, but Jehovah Jira, Shalom, Nisse were titles for what ever God was doing for them at that Time. When he provided for them he was called Jehovah Jira for example

Actually they are just the names of places. If you are going to work to slip things past by using Hebrew, you will have to work harder because on top of Greek I also know how to translate Hebrew.

Then what definition of One God are you useing.

I have been trying to explain it to you for how many months now? Obviously I am using the true definition of God aka the Trinity. BTW three persons do not equal three gods. It would if there were three different divine substances but there isn't the three persons are of one divine substance. There is some sort division in the Godhead, which persons is the best human term possible to describe. This division of the Godhead is evidenced by Christ's baptism, the fact that only the Son became flesh, the manifestation of three men to Abraham in Gn, the consistant usage of the third person when Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit and to the Father, and by the conversations between the members of the Godhead.

Then everytime that you say God is Three Persons you really mean there are three Gods. God was praying to himself.

According to J.L. Hall "God did not die on the cross, nor did a divine eternal person offer blood from a divine eternal body." Now how can you defend a statement such as this and believe that Jesus is God. Jesus died, which means God died, otherwise Jesus is not God.

He did not claim that son was a Name. He said baptize them in the NAME of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost

Are you just trying to look foolish? I told you not to use this again unless you could disprove me using the Greek.

 

[Jerry Moon]

Originally posted by Eric B:
It is more than just his future physical appearance, or bringing us to the kingdom at the end.[/QB]

"Bringing us to the Kingdom at the end?" What kinda talk is that? John said the Kingdom of God was "at hand". John was saying that it was right at the door.

 

[Jerry Moon]

Originally posted by Don:
[QB]"Do you have all the oxygen in the world in that bottle?"

Granted, most analogies are bad; this one is really bad.

What you just implied is that Jesus was not fully God in the flesh....

What your impling is that Jesus was not fully God in the flesh because he was not everywhere. (Omnipresent)

 

[Eric B]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Eric B:
It is more than just his future physical appearance, or bringing us to the kingdom at the end.[/QB]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Bringing us to the Kingdom at the end?" What kinda talk is that? John said the Kingdom of God was "at hand". John was saying that it was right at the door.

This referred to Chemnitz' statement "Rather He is refering to us joining Him in heaven" I had forgotten how exactly he had rephrased it (and also that he later retracted it.
But anyway, the Kingdom is both now and in the future when we join Him in Heaven.

Also, there should be some caution with the concept of God "dying". God is by nature immortal. But with Christ, we must remember the two natures, both divine and human, the latter God having taken on when becoming flesh. This is how Jesus can be God, yet die. Blurring this will confuse people and builds the case of those who deny Jesus is God.

 

[Don]

What your impling is that Jesus was not fully God in the flesh because he was not everywhere. (Omnipresent)

Then what you're proposing is that the bottle represents the flesh, and only a little bit of oxygen is in the body...meaning, only a little bit of God was in the flesh?