So ALL who would see tithing as still in place for the Christian today are all "legalists/ in error/wrong?"
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Tithing and Giving
- Thread starter gb93433
- Start date
So ALL who would see tithing as still in place for the Christian today are all "legalists/ in error/wrong?"
Can both positions be right at the same time?So ALL who would see tithing as still in place for the Christian today are all "legalists/ in error/wrong?"
Can both positions be right at the same time?
Would say there there is a definte answer to this question, but that a lot like Cal/Arm salavation question...
One more right, but God allows and honors either viewpoint!
freeatlast
New Member
I meant "Grey area' between sincewre christians whose interpretation of the Bible would to them support either us being still on tithe principle, or else under 'free will grace" giving!
IF fully persuaded nd done with sincere heart, think the Lord says 'yes" to both!
Then you are wrong just like the woman who becomes a Pastor. We do not get the luxury to decide from our own hearts what is and what is not right. We are to live by faith not sincerety from the heart. Our hearts are wicked and will fail us but faith will never fail us. Your claiming the heart of the people at the tower of Babel who did what was right in their own hearts.
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I would contend that evil was present when Satan made his choice and its presence came from God. That does not make God evil just because he gave two choices.Would say there there is a definte answer to this question, but that a lot like Cal/Arm salavation question...
One more right, but God allows and honors either viewpoint!
freeatlast
New Member
Yes they are all wrong, but not all know what the bible teaches on this as they have not read or been told, but those who have read what the bible teaches on this and continue in it are wrong, legalists and in rebellion.So ALL who would see tithing as still in place for the Christian today are all "legalists/ in error/wrong?"
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They are all wrong, but those who have read what the bible teaches on this and continue in it are wrong, legalists and in rebellion.
Are you so sure that either you might be misunderstanding this subject matter, or else that God will allow us free choice to decide either way in this area, and that we cannot judge each other depending on which deision in this area that we make?
'Who are you to judge your fellow brother, as BOTH of you share the SAME Master!"
freeatlast
New Member
Are you so sure that either you might be misunderstanding this subject matter, or else that God will allow us free choice to decide either way in this area, and that we cannot judge each other depending on which deision in this area that we make?
'Who are you to judge your fellow brother, as BOTH of you share the SAME Master!"
Are you asking me if the bible means what is says or are we to perhaps use it as a guyed post and then all go off in our own directions? Again you seek to use the tactics of satan by claiming judging. satan loves that attack as it does shut the mouths of many out of fear and lack of understanding but the truth is not be be hindered as he so desires.
The bile has give how the church was to give. It is not a suggestion nor is it written to give some idea that we can then add to or take from.
The only way to be giving by faith is to follow what the Lord has written. Everything else is either error and or sin.
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I just started reading a scholarly work on tithing and giving. The author said that as time went by that teaching on tithing increased as the church got older. I found that quite interesting.
I think that God would honor either seeing Tithe for today or it being free will grace giving, but needs to be fully persuaded that its right for you...
problem is when churches try to put ALL on either side, needs to be individual decision!
freeatlast
New Member
Yes that is because as time went on the church departed form the teachings of the scriptures as faith dwindled. Tithing is not for the church. We have a higher standard.I just started reading a scholarly work on tithing and giving. The author said that as time went by that teaching on tithing increased as the church got older. I found that quite interesting.
2Cor 9:7 KJV
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, [so let him give]; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
ESV
Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver
freeatlast
New Member
You believe that because of rebellion. Faith believes and follows what God says not what we want to believe for ourselves.I think that God would honor either seeing Tithe for today or it being free will grace giving, but needs to be fully persuaded that its right for you...
problem is when churches try to put ALL on either side, needs to be individual decision!
Tom Butler
New Member
I understand about giving in the proper spirit and with a sincere heart.
What I'm having difficulty understanding is exactly what it means to give "as God has prospered you." How much is that? What proportion of our increase should be given back to God? How do we decide that?
Does God get a piece of what's left after we pay all the bills? What piece?
This is not about the gross or the net. This is not about whether we should give back to God. This is about the definition of "as God has prospered you."
It just seems inconsistent to me to hold that God required 10% from the Jews, but is silent about us Gentiles. I somehow can't see God as saying, "Don't worry about it, just give what makes you happy. Just as long as you're sincere, I don't care how much it is. Even if it's just a dollar, I'll be happy."
One can label tithing as legalistic, but it is the one guideline we have for interpreting "as God has prospered you."
What I'm having difficulty understanding is exactly what it means to give "as God has prospered you." How much is that? What proportion of our increase should be given back to God? How do we decide that?
Does God get a piece of what's left after we pay all the bills? What piece?
This is not about the gross or the net. This is not about whether we should give back to God. This is about the definition of "as God has prospered you."
It just seems inconsistent to me to hold that God required 10% from the Jews, but is silent about us Gentiles. I somehow can't see God as saying, "Don't worry about it, just give what makes you happy. Just as long as you're sincere, I don't care how much it is. Even if it's just a dollar, I'll be happy."
One can label tithing as legalistic, but it is the one guideline we have for interpreting "as God has prospered you."
Tom Butler
New Member
One other thing occurred to me. When Jesus blasted the Pharisees in Luke 11:42, he told them they were right to tithe.
His disciples were right there and they heard him say that. We don't have it recorded by Luke (or Matthew), but surely Jesus took them aside and told them to ignore what he had told the Pharisees; that he was going to change that requirement down the road.
Or maybe he told them, "tithing is not for the church, so you guys are off the hook, since you are the church."
His disciples were right there and they heard him say that. We don't have it recorded by Luke (or Matthew), but surely Jesus took them aside and told them to ignore what he had told the Pharisees; that he was going to change that requirement down the road.
Or maybe he told them, "tithing is not for the church, so you guys are off the hook, since you are the church."
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I understand about giving in the proper spirit and with a sincere heart.
What I'm having difficulty understanding is exactly what it means to give "as God has prospered you." How much is that? What proportion of our increase should be given back to God? How do we decide that?
Does God get a piece of what's left after we pay all the bills? What piece?
This is not about the gross or the net. This is not about whether we should give back to God. This is about the definition of "as God has prospered you."
It just seems inconsistent to me to hold that God required 10% from the Jews, but is silent about us Gentiles. I somehow can't see God as saying, "Don't worry about it, just give what makes you happy. Just as long as you're sincere, I don't care how much it is. Even if it's just a dollar, I'll be happy."
One can label tithing as legalistic, but it is the one guideline we have for interpreting "as God has prospered you."
believe the Bible teaches us that IF you brother feel that the tithe is for today, thatGod will OK you to give your tithes to Him and His work, but Fal can still do his grace giving, as that is how he views it!
problem is that fal keeps trying to play "God" and bring judgement upon them who just refuse to see it exactly his way!
freeatlast
New Member
I understand about giving in the proper spirit and with a sincere heart.
What I'm having difficulty understanding is exactly what it means to give "as God has prospered you." How much is that? What proportion of our increase should be given back to God? How do we decide that?
Does God get a piece of what's left after we pay all the bills? What piece?
This is not about the gross or the net. This is not about whether we should give back to God. This is about the definition of "as God has prospered you."
It just seems inconsistent to me to hold that God required 10% from the Jews, but is silent about us Gentiles. I somehow can't see God as saying, "Don't worry about it, just give what makes you happy. Just as long as you're sincere, I don't care how much it is. Even if it's just a dollar, I'll be happy."
One can label tithing as legalistic, but it is the one guideline we have for interpreting "as God has prospered you."
Tom the passage reads as follows. I would have to go back and look but I think I misquoted the passage in some other threads but here is what it reads;
2Cor 9:7 KJV
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, [so let him give]; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
ESV
Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver
It is not about how much we have but what our hearts will stand and remain cheerful in that giving.
freeatlast
New Member
One other thing occurred to me. When Jesus blasted the Pharisees in Luke 11:42, he told them they were right to tithe.
His disciples were right there and they heard him say that. We don't have it recorded by Luke (or Matthew), but surely Jesus took them aside and told them to ignore what he had told the Pharisees; that he was going to change that requirement down the road.
Or maybe he told them, "tithing is not for the church, so you guys are off the hook, since you are the church."
Jesus was speaking to people under the law. We who are under grace have a different system for the church. There is no tithing for the church.
freeatlast
New Member
believe the Bible teaches us that IF you brother feel that the tithe is for today, thatGod will OK you to give your tithes to Him and His work, but Fal can still do his grace giving, as that is how he views it!
problem is that fal keeps trying to play "God" and bring judgement upon them who just refuse to see it exactly his way!
The bible never teahes that and you know it.
Alive in Christ
New Member
Why didn't he insert a teaching that tithing no longer applies?
He did...
Let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly, or under compusion, for God loves a cheerfull giver.
I have visited many chrurchs where the pastor says something like...
And remember, if you are a *member* here, you are expected to pay your tithes. Thats cumpulsion
Thats no different than the government expecting you to pay your taxes.
I know of one church's pastor who required all of the members to submit (to him) how much they make each week, (paystub) and required all members to give there tithes in a church supplied sealed envelop with their name on it.
I would have fled that place like the plague.
Tom Butler
New Member
Jesus was speaking to people under the law. We who are under grace have a different system for the church. There is no tithing for the church.
But the church already existed, and it was listening to him speak to the Pharisees. So, I ask again, did Jesus tell his disciples privately to ignore what he told the Pharisees, since they were under the law and his followers weren't?