Not adding, just understanding it!
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Tithing and Giving
- Thread starter gb93433
- Start date
Not adding, just understanding it!
I am a person on disability. And try the best to tithe my 10%. Not just in money terms. But also in terms and value of my heart and soul. As God wants to lay that on us. As what is ours no matter if it is money, cars, jobs, houses, etc. Is really in fact, GOD's!:1_grouphug:
Frankly, I don't know the answer to that question. If I'd never heard of the 10% tithe, I probably would have chosen a similar baseline from some other source.
Your question has made me pause and consider something. If I understand correctly, some in this thread consider choosing a biblical baseline is a sin, while using some other, probably secular, baseline isn't.
Your turn to answer my question in the post above.
Tom Butler
New Member
In this case, there is no "what if." We have the gospels and the Old Testament. You can choose your argument but you can't choose your facts.
freeatlast
New Member
Frankly, I don't know the answer to that question. If I'd never heard of the 10% tithe, I probably would have chosen a similar baseline from some other source.
Your question has made me pause and consider something. If I understand correctly, some in this thread consider choosing a biblical baseline is a sin, while using some other, probably secular, baseline isn't.
Your turn to answer my question in the post above.
Since you seem to be sidestepping the question for what would seem oblivious reasons let me explain what you would have done. You would have done exactly what everyone in the early church would have done. You would have obeyed in giving the way it was presented only giving the amount that came from a cheerful heart. The only exceptions would be those self righteous pious ones who wanted everyone to think highly of them and these would give more then their heart could stand in hopes of getting the praise of men.
As to a baseline as you put it the only biblical baseline for NT giving is the cheerful heart. If the Lord wanted us to use a base, or example to determine our giving then He would have conveyed that through the Apostle when He gave the instruction as how to give but He did not.
There is only one way to give to the Lord and it is not based on any amount or percent to guide us except the heart. If the NT way to give is followed it will tell the truth about our heart to ourselves which many times a very hard thing to receive.
ESV
Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. It has nothing to do with how much we have. It has to do only what the heart will allow cheerfully.
So today once a person has read the scriptures on how to give and they decide to do it another way based on anything except the cheerful heart yes they are sinning. Nothing, NADA, ZERO, is to enter into the decision we make on how much we give except the cheerful heart. Basing our giving on the tithe is like basing our giving on what another gives and that is not the way the Lord wants our giving. Also any person who tells others or suggests that the tithe is a good starting point or that it is the example we can or should use in giving is teaching legalism and is in sin.Our giving is to come from a higher standard then the tithe and that is from the heart with no outside prompting or guilt. It is totally based on cheerfulness and not a penny more should be given then what lies within the cheerfulness of our heart.
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Question...
was the principle of the Tithe given in the law to Moeses, or was it before that?
IF before, cannot use rreason of it being under the law, and we are now under Grace to say it does not aplly to us for today!
There is a very good treatment of the teaching at http://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1016&context=fac_dis
It is has a lot of the same content as the book You Mean I Dont Have to Tithe? by David A. Croteau
It seems to be an excellent work that will be around for a long time. The book points out the politics and agenda behind some teaching in the past.
It is has a lot of the same content as the book You Mean I Dont Have to Tithe? by David A. Croteau
It seems to be an excellent work that will be around for a long time. The book points out the politics and agenda behind some teaching in the past.
Do you think some would hold to us not being under the tithe as a way to rationalize not giving as much back to the Lord as we should?
Of course. In the gospels we Jesus addressing the religious leaders of the day who rationalized things. I tend to think man is no different now than when God created man and he sinned.
Years ago a young man spoke to me about some struggles he was having. He told me that he could lose his job for talking to anyone about Christ. I listened and said that he should pray about his struggles. I did not tell him what to do and what my convictions were simply because I was at a different place. He needed to wrestle with God and not what I might say. We prayed and then a few days later he came to me saying that he was in a conversation with the man and the man brought up the subject.
I think that too often we play junior holy spirit rather than let people wrestle with God. When they wrestle with God then they gets the results of their struggle.
When I met my wife, she struggled with boldness. She did not it that I was so different than her. Now I am amazed at the conversations she has with people about Christ.
I am reluctant to get involved in this thread but for the most part I believe FAL is correct.
However I would stop short of saying that you are sinning if you tithe if it is the purpose of your heart and are happy with doing so.
Remember this about the mosaic tithe:
It was for Nation of Israel to those tribes/families who entered the land, possessed it and made some or all of their livelihood working said land and passed it on by inheritance to the generations that followed.
It was not a command for the wage earner or the dispossessed or the priests who had no inheritance of the land.
It was to paid in like kind. Say you raised goats, you had 100 goats one year the next your herd increased by 20 goats, 2 went to the lord.
You raised 1000 bushels of barley, 100 went to the Lord.
True there was an exception if you lived too far away from the temple to get there with the Lord's tithe. But you still had to sell the commodities that constituted the Lord's tithe and find a priest to give it to or share it with.
We live by faith. Many Christians give far more than a tithe of their income by faith and rejoice because they can share the abundance of what our father has given them with the needy according to the liberty given us in:
2 Corinthians 9:6-8.
Hebrews 13
However I would stop short of saying that you are sinning if you tithe if it is the purpose of your heart and are happy with doing so.
Remember this about the mosaic tithe:
It was for Nation of Israel to those tribes/families who entered the land, possessed it and made some or all of their livelihood working said land and passed it on by inheritance to the generations that followed.
It was not a command for the wage earner or the dispossessed or the priests who had no inheritance of the land.
It was to paid in like kind. Say you raised goats, you had 100 goats one year the next your herd increased by 20 goats, 2 went to the lord.
You raised 1000 bushels of barley, 100 went to the Lord.
True there was an exception if you lived too far away from the temple to get there with the Lord's tithe. But you still had to sell the commodities that constituted the Lord's tithe and find a priest to give it to or share it with.
We live by faith. Many Christians give far more than a tithe of their income by faith and rejoice because they can share the abundance of what our father has given them with the needy according to the liberty given us in:
2 Corinthians 9:6-8.
6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
Hebrews 13
15 Therefore by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to His name.
16 But do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.
16 But do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.
The dark side:
There are some Christians in this world who would long for just the scraps which we discard from the dinner table.
There are some Christians in this world who would long for just the scraps which we discard from the dinner table.
Unfortunately, we are cloistered here in America and unless missionaries come to tell us and show us their slides of the suffering humanity around the world we are largely unaware of it.
Some one talked about guilt money, we should not have to be motivated by guilt.
When we hear and see this famine of both spiritual and earthly food and are moved with compassion to give and are happy to do so then we are in line with 2 Corinthians 9:6-8.
HankD
What is FAL?
My concern with those of us who say that the tithe was done away with is that they base it being upon the Law, but it was given to Abraham before the law given to Moses, and IF we don't have a standard rate to give back to God, what amount would there be to give under "proportonal giving?"
"given to Abraham"?
"Tithes" are mentioned only once in Genesis and it simply says Abraham gave them not that God required them of him.
It also says once that he offered an animal sacrifice as a burnt offering. Should you?
Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness, not that he paid tithes and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
But if it is what you have determined to do and are happy with it them go ahead, or even give more, there are plenty of missionaries, Christian workers and poor folk out there who need the outpouring of your faith.
"proportional giving" It is what you determine it to be.
Again, (and here I would probably differ with FAL) if that is what you have purposed in your heart and you are OK with it then fine.
HankD
For some it has been exponential or more.
You have proven my point:
"exponential or more" is therefore the determining qualifier of the "some" you speak of.
HankD
(1) I did not side step your question. I gave you the best answer that I have, which is I don't know. And, I still don't know and won't know because the scriptures exist and I've read them for a very long time.
(2) Why do you keep implying that any mention of the term "tithe" means that I don't give with a cheerful spirit? That any mention of the term "tithe" in conjunction with offerings to the Lord are equal to a sin? If I'd said, from the start, that our offerings equal, in total, about 15-16% of our income, without any mention of the word "tithe" would you have consider us to be "cheerful givers"?
We give, as the Holy Spirit leads us, with a cheerful heart. Without any reservations. Without any pressure to give the amount we give by our church or anyone or anything else. Period.
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
Jacob also paid tithes;
Gen 28:20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
Jaccob paid tithes before the law.
freeatlast
New Member
That is too bad that you do not know. I am afraid that many times the Spirit invoked to cover the truth. First off the Spirit is not going to lead anyone any more or different then what scripture says and He certainly IS NOT going to have anyone refer to or base any part of their giving on the tithe in any way shape or form. Nor is He going to tell us how much. The scriptures put it all on us based on our own heart. It is always interesting to see how many people claim to be being lead by the Holy Spirit in an area while what they are doing is not in total agreement with scripture. Scriptural giving can only be done IF there is no reference to the tithe in ones giving.
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