To KJBO's and old style music folk

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Some of the contemporary music is outstanding and will continue to be sung for decades, just as the best of the older songs have survived.

This is key. As always the junk will fall away and the quality stuff will endure. This has always been the case and will always be the case.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I want to hear, play and sing, Christian music that has sound doctrine, that edifies, that teaches and encourages ... that it praises God and not man, that the focus is on God and not man, and that the music does not offend.

You can accomplish these goals with many styles of music. I have heard classic hymns performed in such a way that they bring glory to the performer.

Would you like some example of modern music that has sound doctrine, edifies, teaches and encourages, and praises God?

The matter of rock music is purely one of personal taste.

 

[Mexdeaf]

We sang this in our morning worship.....yes, in an IFB church!

Hmm, then maybe you're not against ALL P&W, just the stuff that isn't "IFB approved". :smilewinkgrin:

Seriously, do you all ever sing, "This is the day the Lord has made"? Plenty of repetition there, plus it's a toe-tapping, finger-snapping, (dare I say it?) hand-raising kind of song.

I like Southern Gospel, lots of folks don't. I don't care for the 7-11, but some of it is pretty good if you cut out some of the 'vain repetition'.

It all pretty much goes back to taste and whatever the pastor likes and doesn't preach against.

 

[DiamondLady]

You can accomplish these goals with many styles of music. I have heard classic hymns performed in such a way that they bring glory to the performer.

Would you like some example of modern music that has sound doctrine, edifies, teaches and encourages, and praises God?

The matter of rock music is purely one of personal taste.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was speaking against ALL modern music. I was not. There is much modern Christian music I love. There is an equal amount that I feel has little to do with God or Christianity but instead draws the focus on self and feelings.

FWIW, we sing quite a bit of contemporary music in our church, equally with classic hymns.

 

[dcorbett]

Hmm, then maybe you're not against ALL P&W, just the stuff that isn't "IFB approved". :smilewinkgrin:

I just don't like repetitive songs - the ones that repeat the same line over and over and over. THAT is my definition of contemporary P&W. Traditional P&W is (example) "Holy, Holy, Holy" which was #1 in the Baptist Hymnal I grew up with.

Seriously, do you all ever sing, "This is the day the Lord has made"? Plenty of repetition there, plus it's a toe-tapping, finger-snapping, (dare I say it?) hand-raising kind of song.

Don't know that one by title, but I LOVE Southern Gospel, since my birthplace is Alabama, and my parents raised me with that style of music.

It all pretty much goes back to taste and whatever the pastor likes and doesn't preach against.

Yep, a lot of it IS the Pastor, and a lot of it is the region, I am beginning to believe. You follow football? If you do, you know of the "West Coast Offense" - well, I am terming this as "West Coast IFB" - We don't frown on ladies in pants, we don't frown on singing good Godly music that is new, we don't let our men look down at us, etc. etc. etc. -

Interesting - my Pastor is a graduate of West Coast Baptist College.

 

[DiamondLady]

What is sad about wanting your feet to move when praising and worshiping God? Did you know the Jews danced and raised their hands in praise of God? They used all kinds of rhythm and musical instruments, even waving banners of bright colors in their worship. I think the NT church of today is afraid to let go and truly worship for fear of being criticized and being compared to charismatic weirdness. That's what's sad to me.

Did I SAY anything about moving your feet??? Nope. I don't think there IS anything wrong with that, as long as you're doing it for the right reasons and you're not being vulgar with it. What I MEANT was sad was that you can't tell the difference in the music between the rock music of the world and some of the rock music in CCM.

It's funny how defensive and then offensive people become, and how they read meaning into something that is said that wasn't meant because they feel what they like is being opposed. You guys might learn to read what is said and not try to read meaning INTO what is said. It would cause a lot less problems and many less arguments and debates.

 

[DiamondLady]

And southern gospel is many times hard to tell from country or bluegrass, aside from the words. And many hymns are hard to tell from folk tunes of the day, aside from the words.

I am not trying to condemn those who don't appreciate CCM at all. However, when my opinion comes under fire, I feel that I must point out inconsistencies in the "anti-CCM" arguments.

First off let me say, quite emphatically, I AM NOT ANTI-CCM I was simply pointing out that there is music played that does nothing to glorify God and that can not be recognized as Christian music. I happen to LOVE Casting Crowns and many, many others. As for not being able to tell Southern Gospel from country or bluegrass...sorry, that argument doesn't float. I've never once heard a Southern Gospel song that you couldn't tell the difference. The words are clear and understandable and you know that song is a Christian song. (Let me say I am not a HUGE fan of Southern Gospel, although there are SG CD's in my collection.

My original point was to bring out the thought that music can be used in music services as long as it edifies the body, brings honor and glory to God and to show the differences in how the music comes about.

P.S. If you stick around you'll figure out I don't like arguments on issues, but would much rather see people voice their own opinions and sharing how they established that opinion. I am not a debater, more an educator.

 

[Bob Alkire]

P.S. If you stick around you'll figure out I don't like arguments on issues, but would much rather see people voice their own opinions and sharing how they established that opinion. I am not a debater, more an educator.

For the record I like a style of music, I can't stand loud music and one to three hymns or songs is fine with me much over two or three my mind going elsewhere.

I like southern gospel I guess that would take in quartets, country style, groups or solos. But as much as I enjoy them, I don't care for them in church service, Friday night sing, great.

If the congregation want a style of music, so be it, but if the music man or pastor wants it and not the majority of the congregation, it should not be. We have five or six churches in my area that most of the congregation
does not come into the service until the music is over. We have had a few church splits over music down here and that is a shame.

My main problem is how loud it is, if it is loud all I hear is noise not music and get a big head ace. I have had to get up and leave many times do to how loud the music was, it gets my head ringing, so I just go home and in four or five hours things come back to where they should be.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

My main problem is how loud it is, if it is loud all I hear is noise not music and get a big head ace. I have had to get up and leave many times do to how loud the music was, it gets my head ringing, so I just go home and in four or five hours things come back to where they should be.

This is a huge issue for me as well

 

[InTheLight]

All music used to be written with the emphasis of beat on the 1st and 3rd counts of each measure (think a waltz). Then along came rock and roll and the emphasis of beats changed to the 2nd and 4th beats. The beat controls the feet. It's hard to listen to rock and roll and not want to move. Almost all CCM music is written with the emphasis on beats 2 & 4.

That sad part of CCM music is that much of it is hard to tell from the worldly rock and roll. We have a local radio station that plays CCM. I almost always listen to BBN but on Saturday mornings they have children's programs and if I'm taking a quick errand I will look for something else to listen to. There are often times when I pop on that radio station I have to take a second look to make sure I have it right because it certainly doesn't sound like Christian music to me!

What I MEANT was sad was that you can't tell the difference in the music between the rock music of the world and some of the rock music in CCM.

I presume when you say that you can't tell the difference between 'worldly' rock and roll and CCM, you mean that they both put the emphasis on the 2nd and 4th beat? Is that it?

 

[DiamondLady]

I presume when you say that you can't tell the difference between 'worldly' rock and roll and CCM, you mean that they both put the emphasis on the 2nd and 4th beat? Is that it?

<sigh> Although they both do put the beats on the 2nd and 4th, no that is NOT what I meant when I said that often you can not tell the difference. Go to youtube and listen to a song by Stryper and one by...let's say Metallica... and tell me that you can honestly tell much difference.

Scripture says Christians are a peculiar people, we are to be set apart, in the world not of the world. To me those three things say that non-Christians should be able to look at us and see a difference, not see us as just like them. I believe that includes the music we listen to and have in our churches.

 

[InTheLight]

<sigh> Although they both do put the beats on the 2nd and 4th, no that is NOT what I meant when I said that often you can not tell the difference. Go to youtube and listen to a song by Stryper and one by...let's say Metallica... and tell me that you can honestly tell much difference.

Scripture says Christians are a peculiar people, we are to be set apart, in the world not of the world. To me those three things say that non-Christians should be able to look at us and see a difference, not see us as just like them. I believe that includes the music we listen to and have in our churches.

How would you be able to tell the difference between a secular song played on the piano in the 1870's and a hymn written in the 1870's and played on the piano? Wouldn't the hymn have the same basic sound as the secular song and therefore sound 'worldly?

 

[DiamondLady]

How would you be able to tell the difference between a secular song played on the piano in the 1870's and a hymn written in the 1870's and played on the piano? Wouldn't the hymn have the same basic sound as the secular song and therefore sound 'worldly?

I think our definitions of "worldly" music is VERY different. Besides, I have a feeling you're going to say that many hymns come from the popular music of that era. You would be right, that some hymns do use classically composed music as their melody. However, I wouldn't go to a rock venue and standing in a screaming crowd listening to classical music...neither did they in the 1870's and I don't believe that kind of music belongs in our churches either. Also, I do not believe that Christian rock has anything to do with worship. It has to do with making you feel good. That's not worship. Not at all.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Also, I do not believe that Christian rock has anything to do with worship. It has to do with making you feel good. That's not worship. Not at all.

I don't understand how you can make such a harsh statement without knowing the people involved or their heart and attitudes. Especially since the Bible does not address music styles.

How about if someone said - 'Most of those people who are stuck on their traditional hymns have no more spiritual fervour than those old dead tunes?'

We can't make those kind of judgements from either side. Though I don't like 'Christian rock' at all, I know people who do worship the Lord in that way and many of them have godly reverential lives that would put some traditionalists to shame.

 

[Jim1999]

Perhaps we should just eliminate music altogether in the church service!!!!!

I had a woman turn the pa system off when I forgot I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket and remained at an open microphone at the pulpit. I guess she had a preference for music......

Cheers,

Jim

 

[InTheLight]

I think our definitions of "worldly" music is VERY different.

If the music that composes the hymn sounds like the music in a secular song, isn't that 'worldly' music? How would you define it?

Besides, I have a feeling you're going to say that many hymns come from the popular music of that era.

Actually, no I wasn't going to go there but I have heard that argument.

Also, I do not believe that Christian rock has anything to do with worship. It has to do with making you feel good. That's not worship. Not at all.

I think the intent of the musicians is the determining factor, not whether or not we like the genre of the music. I think God is the ultimate judge of what is worship and what isn't.

I happen to agree with you in that I don't like rock music in the worship service. That is a personal preference of mine. Other people like Christian rock in worship. That is their preference. I wouldn't go so far as to judge it as not being worthy.

I do like to listen to Christian rock and Christian pop music during my leisure time or while driving. But in church service? I don't like it.

 

[Aaron]

Especially since the Bible does not address music styles.

Yes, it does.

Let all things be done decently and in order. 1 Cor. 14:40.

If music is used in worship, the manner or style in which it is performed is to be judged.

 

[sag38]

That's right! And, if it doesn't pass Aaron's judgment then it is not acceptable. Please, Aaron you will have to do better than that. So far, all you and Diamond Lady have done is to give your opinion without one ounce of the Bible to back up which style is appropriate and which isn't.

 

[Aaron]

I don't recall venturing my opinion one way or another. I simply repeated the Scripture that said all things must be done decently and in order.

So are you saying you're a better judge of what is decent than I am?

 

[DiamondLady]

I don't understand how you can make such a harsh statement without knowing the people involved or their heart and attitudes. Especially since the Bible does not address music styles.

How about if someone said - 'Most of those people who are stuck on their traditional hymns have no more spiritual fervour than those old dead tunes?'

We can't make those kind of judgements from either side. Though I don't like 'Christian rock' at all, I know people who do worship the Lord in that way and many of them have godly reverential lives that would put some traditionalists to shame.

I apologize if I was harsh. It's been a rough day today beginning at 4:15 this morning and I usually choose my words more carefully.

I disagree that the Bible does not address music styles. I believe it does in that music was written to celebrate, worship, communicate, praise, encourage, and even warn. We're given many multiple examples of songs written throughout the Bible from Genesis right through Revelation. None I am aware of. I don't know any song in the Bible that says,
"Well, speak of the devil,
He's no friend of mine,...
We are here to rock you and to say...
To Hell With the Devil

I also think that people misunderstand the word worship and associate it with music. While music can be a part of worship, it really isn't what it's about at all. It's showing reverence and adoration to God, and as far as I can tell those lyrics have nothing to do with reverence or adoration. While that's one song, and the one I used as an example earlier in my post, I stand by my statement that rock music makes one feel good. The beat is designed to do that.

I look at Christian rock like this....just because it sounds good doesn't mean it's good for you. Christian music should glorify God. He inhabits our praise, it is a sweet savor. We need to examine the music we listen to by scripture. /COLOR]