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Tongues
- Thread starter Singer
- Start date
Hi
I've just read this thread laboriously for an hour!
I am a personal friend of SINGER and wish to say something.
Singer is a born again christian and anyone who knows him would say that the fruits of the spirit are obvious to his family, his neighborhood and his wider circle of contacts.
I personally have never spoken in tongues, and I am worshiping God in a fellowship which does not "agree" with the tongues thing.
However, I DO know SINGER, and could never doubt he is telling the whole sincere truth as to what happened in his experience.
Many a time, he has become discouraged in his walk with the Lord, (as we know is normal, and we have many of Davids psalms testifying to discouragement) and every time, he is able to look back to his experience and his doubts - and his discouragement vanishes.
How can anyone discredit something which has helped Singer throughout the past years?
How do we know God didn't know that Singer is a stubborn man, a man who due to his very nature (which the Lord himself created) would cross many challenging paths in his life (led by God) and that he needed something as profound as this experience to fall back on in his hour of need?
I know a LOT of private experiences people have had, and they are NOT recorded anywhere in the Bible at all, yet they were exactly what was needed at the time to give Gods child His reassurance and fresh courage.
God Bless us all, as we strive to accept each other in our own personal experiences.
I am grateful for those who have had the courage to share with me, and I know Singer has hardly shared his experience with anyone, due to knowing he will have his own personal precious time with God trampled underfoot.
CMF
I've just read this thread laboriously for an hour!
I am a personal friend of SINGER and wish to say something.
Singer is a born again christian and anyone who knows him would say that the fruits of the spirit are obvious to his family, his neighborhood and his wider circle of contacts.
I personally have never spoken in tongues, and I am worshiping God in a fellowship which does not "agree" with the tongues thing.
However, I DO know SINGER, and could never doubt he is telling the whole sincere truth as to what happened in his experience.
Many a time, he has become discouraged in his walk with the Lord, (as we know is normal, and we have many of Davids psalms testifying to discouragement) and every time, he is able to look back to his experience and his doubts - and his discouragement vanishes.
How can anyone discredit something which has helped Singer throughout the past years?
How do we know God didn't know that Singer is a stubborn man, a man who due to his very nature (which the Lord himself created) would cross many challenging paths in his life (led by God) and that he needed something as profound as this experience to fall back on in his hour of need?
I know a LOT of private experiences people have had, and they are NOT recorded anywhere in the Bible at all, yet they were exactly what was needed at the time to give Gods child His reassurance and fresh courage.
God Bless us all, as we strive to accept each other in our own personal experiences.
I am grateful for those who have had the courage to share with me, and I know Singer has hardly shared his experience with anyone, due to knowing he will have his own personal precious time with God trampled underfoot.
CMF
I wish also to offer encouragement to the person who said he quivered and has had this one word picked to bits on here.
There have been many translations of the Bible, and it is entirely possible that one group of translaters could have used his word "quiver" and then all would be peaceful here.
Many people have had many experiences in their lives which are not recorded word for word in the scriptures.
To pick on this one word "quiver" is outlandish.
Keep in His Will ... the person who "quivered".
CMF
There have been many translations of the Bible, and it is entirely possible that one group of translaters could have used his word "quiver" and then all would be peaceful here.
Many people have had many experiences in their lives which are not recorded word for word in the scriptures.
To pick on this one word "quiver" is outlandish.
Keep in His Will ... the person who "quivered".
CMF
Victory Leader (the quiverer, I believe?)
You said:
Do you agree?
As we are all sinners..... even 'tho forgiven through the blood of Christ, we still sin, and using your thinking, that would mean noone can qualify for the Baptism of the HG .
Just a thought
CMF
You said:
I agree to a certain degree, but lets face it, a born again christian still sins daily, even hourly and may have a freshly unclean temple. We also know, that upon repentance and daily cleansing, they are made clean again.
Do you agree?
As we are all sinners..... even 'tho forgiven through the blood of Christ, we still sin, and using your thinking, that would mean noone can qualify for the Baptism of the HG .
Just a thought
CMF
Lorelei,
You said (way back) but it stood out big time to me:
Yes, prayer is how we talk to God. But it is also a place of conversation.
We pray. We "wait" on Him. He speaks to us.
All in the place of prayer.
What about a dyslexic person? He/she cannot read the Word. Therefore he will never hear God nor understand Him?
God can speak to us at any time ... not only when we are reading his word.
You make it sound like a game.
I pray to the Lord, my Master, my Father, my elder brother... and speak with him.
Then I go away and find my Bible (his Word) and look through the pages hoping to find Him speaking to us.
Unless of course, He guides us in where to look?
That must be the Holy Spirit directing us?
Knowing the Holy Spirit is also God, the that is God speaking to us and directing us before we find his answer in His word!
How confusing.
God is not an author of confusion.
Children can know Him.
Dyslexics can know Him.
People of low iq can know Him.
I do not say Gods Word is unnecessary. It is a wonderful place to get to know God more ... but it is lifeless without first having salvation and knowing God within.
The Bible assists us in knowing our Father more intimately.
Thats why true believers thirst to read his word.
They love him and want to know more and more of their Saviour.
CMF
You said (way back) but it stood out big time to me:
I simply cannot agree with you here, I am sorry.
Yes, prayer is how we talk to God. But it is also a place of conversation.
We pray. We "wait" on Him. He speaks to us.
All in the place of prayer.
What about a dyslexic person? He/she cannot read the Word. Therefore he will never hear God nor understand Him?
God can speak to us at any time ... not only when we are reading his word.
You make it sound like a game.
I pray to the Lord, my Master, my Father, my elder brother... and speak with him.
Then I go away and find my Bible (his Word) and look through the pages hoping to find Him speaking to us.
Unless of course, He guides us in where to look?
That must be the Holy Spirit directing us?
Knowing the Holy Spirit is also God, the that is God speaking to us and directing us before we find his answer in His word!
How confusing.
God is not an author of confusion.
Children can know Him.
Dyslexics can know Him.
People of low iq can know Him.
I do not say Gods Word is unnecessary. It is a wonderful place to get to know God more ... but it is lifeless without first having salvation and knowing God within.
The Bible assists us in knowing our Father more intimately.
Thats why true believers thirst to read his word.
They love him and want to know more and more of their Saviour.
CMF
The problem is that you did not include the preceeding verses. You see Jerusalem was full of Jews and others from all over the known world during those days because they had come for the Pentecost celebration. These people from all over the world heard the disciples preaching the Gospel in their own native languages. It was not some "sipritual" unknown language. The people were amazed that these uneducated Galilean fishermen could speak their native (of every nation) language. The ones who mocked were the local Jews who spoke either Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic and heard their fellow Galilean countrymen speaking in the languages of Phyrgia and Pamphylia, Egypt, Lybia, etc., etc., etc.Originally posted by MEE:
Everyone has an opinion about the saints of God speaking in tongues. It started back on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:12-13)
12) And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13) Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
So you see, it's not new. Some just don't understand.
Maybe you just fall into the "just don't understand" category. I'd like to think that anyway...because I think that you are a nice person.
MEE
But on the day of Pentecost everyone understood clearly and in their own languages. So sorry, this has nothing to do with what you call speaking in tongues.
~Lorelei
PS. Am I one of the people you were referring to?
</font>[/QUOTE]</font>[/QUOTE]That was a silly post. Did not even get my question in there.Lorelei or Bibleboy, were the tongues spoken on the day of pentecost spoken to break a language barrier?
Brian
[ February 18, 2003, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: ONENESS ]
Hi Guys, You have gotten so far a head of me that I do not know what to say so I want to point out something that has been missed. Read:
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
In The original greek the verb that is translated here as "shall cease" is a different type of verb then the ones explaining prohecies and knowledge. It is different and Paul would not have used it had he not known what it meant. It is a verb which indicates that the thing ceasing will cease on its own, it does not require anything happening to it. Kind of like a candle that just burns down and goes out. The verbs used for the other two are like a candle being blown out, something acts which causes them to go away. Tongues will cease on their own, they will just go away, is what is being said here. This fits perfectly with the fact that they were a sign, and when the thing they pointed to happened, then they ended. It is that easy. Paul knew what he was writing and if one can back away from the emotions that tongues generate it is hard to argue with what the Bible really says. In the case of the gift of tongues, it does not matter what the "perfect" is. Arguing the "perfect" question would be another thread. Thats it for now,
In Christ,
Brian
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
In The original greek the verb that is translated here as "shall cease" is a different type of verb then the ones explaining prohecies and knowledge. It is different and Paul would not have used it had he not known what it meant. It is a verb which indicates that the thing ceasing will cease on its own, it does not require anything happening to it. Kind of like a candle that just burns down and goes out. The verbs used for the other two are like a candle being blown out, something acts which causes them to go away. Tongues will cease on their own, they will just go away, is what is being said here. This fits perfectly with the fact that they were a sign, and when the thing they pointed to happened, then they ended. It is that easy. Paul knew what he was writing and if one can back away from the emotions that tongues generate it is hard to argue with what the Bible really says. In the case of the gift of tongues, it does not matter what the "perfect" is. Arguing the "perfect" question would be another thread. Thats it for now,
In Christ,
Brian
Just realized something:
Acts 2:6
" Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude
came together, and were confounded, because that every man
heard them speak in his own language."
KJV
***
Even the clarification of language through the use of tongues in this instance brought confusion to the multitude. We could safely say that God caused the confusion here. Then we constantly attack each other with the "God is not the author of confusion" approach.
I was not confused during my incident with tongues. I was blessed beyond my wildest dreams.
Who is to know the spirit..?
Acts 2:6
" Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude
came together, and were confounded, because that every man
heard them speak in his own language."
KJV
***
Even the clarification of language through the use of tongues in this instance brought confusion to the multitude. We could safely say that God caused the confusion here. Then we constantly attack each other with the "God is not the author of confusion" approach.
I was not confused during my incident with tongues. I was blessed beyond my wildest dreams.
Who is to know the spirit..?
Lorelei the above quote was taken out of another topic on tongues. You mentioned also on that post
Well I wanted to ask you to show us in the bible where it says that the baptism of the Holy Spirit happens upon Salvation.
My bible tells me in John 7:38:39 that the Holy Ghost comes on us when we believe on Jesus as the Scripture hath said.
Was there something wrong with the Samaritians?
Let me show you where the Samaritians heard Phillip preach Christ (Acts 8:5), Let me remind you they had great Joy.(Acts 8:8) Let me remind you that they believed Phillip's teachings and preaching the things concerning the Kingdom of God and Jesus Christ (Acts 8:12). Let me remind you that they had not yet received the Holy Ghost (Acts 8:15-16).
Did you notice they still have not received the Holy Ghost upon believing? You did notice they believed right? As some of you guys believe, I could say "These guys were saved". B/c most of you guys believe that the moment you believe in Christ you are Saved.
But here we find the "Saved" Samariatians have not received the Holy Ghost upon believing.(Acts 8:15-16) Although they believed in Christ the HOly GHost had not fallen upon them.
Let me then go on to ask the point were they saved before the Holy GHost fell on them? Romans 8:9 answers that for us.
Thanks
Victory,
It's obvious you are intimitated by the fact that a woman is pointing out your mistakes. The Bible says that women are to be silent in the church, not that they are never allowed to speak. This is not church, it is a place for discussion.
~Lorelei
It's obvious you are intimitated by the fact that a woman is pointing out your mistakes. The Bible says that women are to be silent in the church, not that they are never allowed to speak. This is not church, it is a place for discussion.
~Lorelei
So, by your own admission here, you weren't saved until you received the Holy Ghost? </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry guys, I'm playing "Catch-up" here.
Don, I am saying that I was not saved until I recieved the Holy Ghost. So was Paul, "Romans 8:9" But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his
Good to see your still around friend.
My statement may not have been quite accurate, thanks for pointing this out. My point is that God has spoken to us in His Word and the Spirit should be encouraging you to read it and know it. Praying for something that has already been addressed in His Word is not necessary. If the Bible tells me don't steal, I don't need to pray for understanding of what the verse means. It is clear that God does not want me to steal. So praying for God to give you His Spirit when it is clear that the Spirit was given when you were saved (or else you wouldn't be saved) is fruitless.
It's kind of like a lot of these threads. You show a Bible verse that proves someone wrong and they keep writing posts saying "but but but". God does not honor prayer with that attitude. Pray for understanding all day, if God has already given that understanding in His Word and you have read it but refuse to accept it, well sorry, it isn't going to change.
Then someone better be speaking it. The message has to be heard and the message is in God's Word. Are you suggesting they can go to heaven without believing the message in God's Word? Well certainly not. Therefore there are other ways that they can hear the message, but it better be God's Word. In today's age you can get the word on tape, in brail, a disability is no excuse for not knowing what God has already said.
Why would anyone filled with the Spirit NOT want to read God's Word and find out all that they can about Him?
Yes, but I can confirm that it was God speaking by comparing what I was told with what the Bible says.
No, people who place what feelings they get out of praying in place of God's Word are making a mockery out of what prayer is.
Prayer is not simply an emotional arousing moment with God. It is communicating. Sure, sometimes it can be emotional, but that feeling doesn't take precedence over Biblical teachings.
I heard someone say "God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason." Sometimes we need to get off our knees and quit asking for answers that were already given. What's the point in talking if you aren't willing to listen. God has already told us all that we need to know in God's Word.
This I agree with, for the Word of God is spiritually discerned. Unfortunately people are seeking the Holy Spirit but not understanding who He even is. They are reading the Word without spiritual discernment, so it is foolishness for them.
~Lorelei
From Oneness:
EVEN THOUGH he/she said "The Holy Ghost used tongues to prove that He was now indwelling in me, His temple." (page 6 of this thread)
Are tongues for a sign or not? If not, then why did Paul teach us in 1 Corinthians that tongues were for a sign?
If they are a sign, is it for believers or unbelievers, or both? If it's for believers or both, then why did Paul teach us in 1 Corinthians that tongues are a sign for unbelievers?
THAT'S why there's such a problem with the use of tongues. We claim the gift, and make statements like "it's the Holy Ghost proving to me that I'm filled," when God-inspired scripture tells us that we believers don't need proof! We KNOW.
If you need proof, then I humbly submit that maybe you ain't saved after all....
Ah, but Victory gave us his/her witness about being saved, but not speaking in tongues until about a year later (page 4 of this thread).
EVEN THOUGH he/she said "The Holy Ghost used tongues to prove that He was now indwelling in me, His temple." (page 6 of this thread)
Are tongues for a sign or not? If not, then why did Paul teach us in 1 Corinthians that tongues were for a sign?
If they are a sign, is it for believers or unbelievers, or both? If it's for believers or both, then why did Paul teach us in 1 Corinthians that tongues are a sign for unbelievers?
THAT'S why there's such a problem with the use of tongues. We claim the gift, and make statements like "it's the Holy Ghost proving to me that I'm filled," when God-inspired scripture tells us that we believers don't need proof! We KNOW.
If you need proof, then I humbly submit that maybe you ain't saved after all....
Oneness, not only have I already addressed this in this post, you and I have discussed this several times. You should already know the answer to this.
You quoted this verse proving what I believe that we get the Spirit once we believe.
But why then didn't they already have the Spirit here since the apostles already believed?
The answer is in the next verse. Always in context.
The Samaritans had to wait in chapter 8 because God had not yet poured His Spirit out upon the Samaritans. Any samaritan that believed after that day was indeed given the promise in John 7:38, unless of course you want to suggest that Jesus was lying.
Oneness, you never want to address the significance of these instances, and until you do, you are making a mockery of God's Word.
~Lorelei
It's not a question of what I believe, it's a question of what the Bible tells us.
You either believe this command from the Lord given to Paul or you are to be ingored. It's that simple.
~Lorelei </font>[/QUOTE]Ok do you believe that woman should be able to prophesy at all?