Transgressing the Law

[EdSutton]

Thanks Ed :thumbs: It's nice to find some warmth on the Baptist board. We're only sorry people fight and squabble to defend their interpretation of scripture more than study to learn together.

I use the pronoun "we" in my posts, because I believe I am one with the Father and the Son, based on verses such as:

Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God (1 John 4:15).

Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?--unless indeed you are disqualified. (2 Corinthians 13:5b)

And these fulfill the prayer by Jesus that we all may be one.

"I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, (John 17:20-21a).

This may sound foolish, but we believe this is where Jesus (Gee's US) comes from. Such as, gee, it's us!,......we are Jesus, in that, I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; (Galatians 2:20a); and, you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. (Colossians 3:3)

We have died, and it is no longer we who live, but Christ lives in us, and we are members of His body.

We're sorry the posts are not closely read to discern the meaning, unless God has blinded those who read the posts to the meaning.

Take care, and God bless.

FTR, I disagree with much of the theology in what you previously posted. And I also completely disagree when anyone effectively 'mystically' claims to have superior insight.

I just try and disagree without being disagreeable.

Ed

 

[steaver]

HP: I would answer no to both of these, yet just the same I fully believe it is possible for the Spirit of God to draw one to Himself by calling on them to repent, and yet a deceiving spirit might in fact snatch away that good word and whisper to them there is yet another way to enter in. Deception is real Steaver. Many are now deceived into believing they have followed the Spirit of God when in fact they have bought into the doctrine of demons. Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They believed the wrong spirit. They thought they were right. They professed God with their lips but their heart, as proved by their works, was far from God. Their lives were full of iniquity.

I highlighted your favorite saying. "yet just the same". This is saying that having an evil spirit snatch away the word is the same as having an evil spirit draw you to Christ. There is no "just the same" here. I think you use that expression way to much even when there is nothing "just the same" going on in the subject at hand.

Yes the devil can snatch away the word, this was not the subject BBob and I were discussing.

 

[DHK]

I will allow Brother Bob to speak for his own self, but I believe the verse he posted is good admonition for all of us at all times.

Try being relative instead of deceptive.
No one was speaking of good admonition for all of us at all times.
We were speaking of Steaver's testimony. Your inference then, is that Steaver's testimony is not a clear testimony of salvation but simply a "good admonition." That is a real slap in the face--an insult!

Many people have been deceived into believing that they are accepted in Christ when in fact they are not.

The subject is Steaver's testimony, not many people.
You have again suggested that Steaver was deceived into believing that he accepted Christ but in reality he did not. You disbelieve his testimony. You infer (along with Bob) that he is lying.

Scripture admonishes all of us to examine ourselves to see if we be of the faith.

Steaver has done that. He firmly states that he was saved at the age of ten. Why do you continue to question his testimony? This is very insulting.

If during that examination one would find unrepented sin contrary to the spirit of love towards God and their fellowman, that would be clear cause to do ones first works over again.

This betrays an unfounded and unscripturally held position of yours. Nevertheless it still points the finger at Steaver and accuses him of not being saved when he says he is. Questioning, or worse yet, denying the testimony of another's salvation is a serious offense on the BB.

If ones works are not in accordance to the faith they say they have, it just could be possible that they have misunderstood a spirit for ‘the’ Spirit of God.

Another false accusation. Can you demonstrate that is true in Steaver's life. Remember the topic has been the statement's that Steaver has made regarding his own salvation. This post is what you answered in reference to those statements.

1Jo 1:7 BUT IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. “ If we are not walking in the light, we have no reason to believe that our sins are under the blood and that we are to be found in Christ in the last day.

This is a real class act. You are suggesting that Steaver is not saved; that his sins are not under the blood of Christ. This is one post that should be reported.

 

[Brother Bob]

Try being relative instead of deceptive.
No one was speaking of good admonition for all of us at all times.
We were speaking of Steaver's testimony. Your inference then, is that Steaver's testimony is not a clear testimony of salvation but simply a "good admonition." That is a real slap in the face--an insult!

The subject is Steaver's testimony, not many people.
You have again suggested that Steaver was deceived into believing that he accepted Christ but in reality he did not. You disbelieve his testimony. You infer (along with Bob) that he is lying.

Steaver has done that. He firmly states that he was saved at the age of ten. Why do you continue to question his testimony? This is very insulting.

This betrays an unfounded and unscripturally held position of yours. Nevertheless it still points the finger at Steaver and accuses him of not being saved when he says he is. Questioning, or worse yet, denying the testimony of another's salvation is a serious offense on the BB.

Another false accusation. Can you demonstrate that is true in Steaver's life. Remember the topic has been the statement's that Steaver has made regarding his own salvation. This post is what you answered in reference to those statements.

This is a real class act. You are suggesting that Steaver is not saved; that his sins are not under the blood of Christ. This is one post that should be reported.

Originally Posted by steaver
Since the subject is my conversion at age ten, does this scripture post suggest that the spirit that I was being drawn to when Billy Graham was preaching, the spirit that caused me to be remorseful of my sins and call on Jesus Christ to deliver me, save me, was not the spirit of Christ?
I would hope that you asked God that, not me. I do not have the answer for you. Billy Graham did not have the answer for you. In case you do not know it, salvation is between you and God, period.

Martha, " I am the resurrection".

"I am the bread that came down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof and never die".

Only You and God, can work that out. Why would you even want someone else to answer that for you, are you in doubt? Do you ask your Pastor if you are saved or not, or do you ask God?

BBob

You need to quit turning others post into what you want them to say.

You are the one who questioned my salvation and called me a liar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHK
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:10 If we say that we haven't sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The above two verses were written to believers. Notice John says "we" including himself.
When Paul wrote Romans 3:23 he was speaking of sin, and its effects.
Sin causes ALL to miss the mark of God's glory. Every time you sin you miss the mark of God's holiness and God's glory. If you deny that it is a demonstration of your innate nature of lying. No one is questioning your salvation. But we do question you ability to live a sinless life. You have admitted in the past that you don't believe in entire sanctification, or sinlessness. Every time you sin, you fall short of God's glory or holiness. You are not as holy as God, except in the righteousness of Christ.

You conviently did not quote the rest which says if we are born of God, we cannot sin, for His seed remaineth in us, therfore we cannot sin. You again accuse me of being a liar, when scripture says not liars shall enter into Heaven, therefore, you are questioning my salvation, Sir. You are breaking the BB rules by question my salvation. You also said that calling another member a liar, is against BB rules, when you have called me a liar over and over and you are a moderator which should be setting an example for others to follow.

BBob,

BBob,

 

[DHK]

You need to quit turning others post into what you want them to say.

You are the one who questioned my salvation and called me a liar.
BBob,

Bob, this quote in itself shows its own deceptiveness. Let's take a look. You quoted me as saying:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHK
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:10 If we say that we haven't sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The above two verses were written to believers. Notice John says "we" including himself. ...

And then you added these remarks of your own:

You conviently did not quote the rest which says if we are born of God, we cannot sin, for His seed remaineth in us, therfore we cannot sin. You again accuse me of being a liar, when scripture says not liars shall enter into Heaven, therefore, you are questioning my salvation, Sir. You are breaking the BB rules by question my salvation. You also said that calling another member a liar, is against BB rules, when you have called me a liar over and over and you are a moderator which should be setting an example for others to follow.

Consider the deceptiveness of your own post.
I quoted two verses out of 1John chapter one.
The you accuse me of not quoting the rest which says if we are not born of God we cannot sin...

You failed even to give the reference. Where is that verse found, Bob?
It is found in 1John 3:9!
You accused me on not finishing the verse. I finished the verse. In fact I finished the chapter by quoting the last verse of chapter one. The verse you quoted is half way down chapter three, two chapters later. It is far out of context from the Scripture that I quoted. You are falsely accusing me when you tell me that I didn't finish the verse. In fact this is another lie that you have posted, isn't it? Please don't tell me that you don't lie.

 

[Dan Edwin]

because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression (Romans 4:15).

For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor (Galatians 2:18).

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. (Romans 8:2)

[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh (Galatians 5:16).

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24).

If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him. (1 John 2:29)

In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. (1 John 3:10)

Then the King will say to those on His right hand (the righteous), 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: (Matthew 25:34)

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

God justifies us by His grace for our faith as we repent and confess our trespasses, but just because we have faith does not mean we have been justified (forgiven of all trespasses) to be born of the Spirit to become heirs of the Kingdom of God. We are not saved by any kind of works, but faith without repentance to live a righteous life will not get us into the Kinddom of God. Repentance may be work, but is not works.

And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure (1 John 3:3).

God bless

 

[DHK]

God justifies us by His grace for our faith as we repent and confess our trespasses, but just because we have faith does not mean we have been justified (forgiven of all trespasses) to be born of the Spirit to become heirs of the Kingdom of God. We are not saved by any kind of works, but faith without repentance to live a righteous life will not get us into the Kinddom of God. Repentance may be work, but is not works.

as WE repent and confess......

Dan, who is the "we"?
What group do you belong to?

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, this quote in itself shows its own deceptiveness. Let's take a look. You quoted me as saying:

And then you added these remarks of your own:

Consider the deceptiveness of your own post.
I quoted two verses out of 1John chapter one.
The you accuse me of not quoting the rest which says if we are not born of God we cannot sin...

You failed even to give the reference. Where is that verse found, Bob?
It is found in 1John 3:9!
You accused me on not finishing the verse. I finished the verse. In fact I finished the chapter by quoting the last verse of chapter one. The verse you quoted is half way down chapter three, two chapters later. It is far out of context from the Scripture that I quoted. You are falsely accusing me when you tell me that I didn't finish the verse. In fact this is another lie that you have posted, isn't it? Please don't tell me that you don't lie.

Poor ole John, He was all over the place wasn't he. Good thing we have some DHK's in the world to fix them thar words.

A moderator who says the rules of the BB is not to call another member a liar, but yet this moderator continues to call members liars, at random. Pharasee religion in my opinion.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Poor ole John, He was all over the place wasn't he. Good thing we have some DHK's in the world to fix them thar words.

A moderator who says the rules of the BB is not to call another member a liar, but yet this moderator continues to call members liars, at random. Pharasee religion in my opinion.

BBob,

The problem is not with John is it?
The problem is with Bob. Bob was deceptive in his post. Deceptiveness is the same as lying which Bob will not admit to.
DHK finished his verse, but Bob said he didn't. What do you make of that Bob?
Is that being truthful or not?

 

[Brother Bob]

The problem is not with John is it?
The problem is with Bob. Bob was deceptive in his post. Deceptiveness is the same as lying which Bob will not admit to.
DHK finished his verse, but Bob said he didn't. What do you make of that Bob?
Is that being truthful or not?

such childness!

Through this whole thread, you have called me a liar in almost every post where you answered me. That is not a Christian act, nor is it what a moderator should do.

BBob,

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: This is a real class act. You are suggesting that Steaver is not saved; that his sins are not under the blood of Christ. This is one post that should be reported.

HP: DHK, you are beside yourself. I can only hope that the owners of this list see fit to give you a much needed sabbatical. I never made one reference to Steaver in the whole post. I simply stated that the verse was good admonition to all of us, and made no reference to the way anyone had used it in the past, including Brother Bob.

If there is even a shred of reason and fairness left in any of those you do your reporting to they will see clearly that I am not guilty in any way that you falsely acccuse me of. All they need for proof is to read my post for what it says and not what you falsely suggest is my motivation or hidden agenda. Report away.

 

[DHK]

HP: DHK, you are beside yourself. I can only hope that the owners of this list see fit to give you a much needed sabbatical. I never made one reference to Steaver in the whole post. I simply stated that the verse was good admonition to all of us, and made no reference to the way anyone had used it in the past, including Brother Bob.

If there is even a shred of reason and fairness left in any of those you do your reporting to they will see clearly that I am not guilty in any way that you falsely acccuse me of. All they need for proof is to read my post for what it says and not what you falsely suggest is my motivation or hidden agenda. Report away.

I suggest you go back to pages 19 and 20 and re-read where one poster was questioning the salvation of another poster. Then near the top of page 20 you jumped in with your post, inferring the same thing--that the one poster was not saved. You sugar coated it in language that was a bit more vague, but the message was still clear enough. If you don't know what is being talked about then I suggest you refrain from posting. To claim innocence and naivete now is a bit absurd.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: I suggest you go back to pages 19 and 20 and re-read where one poster was questioning the salvation of another poster. Then near the top of page 20 you jumped in with your post, inferring the same thing--that the one poster was not saved. You sugar coated it in language that was a bit more vague, but the message was still clear enough. If you don't know what is being talked about then I suggest you refrain from posting. To claim innocence and naivete now is a bit absurd.

HP: I have not, nor would I ever, question a person’s relationship with God on a debate forum. For what purpose would it serve? It certainly would add nothing at all to the debate on the issue, now would it? I do not have to claim innocence, nor naivety, for my motives were nothing more or less than to look at a passage mentioned and to present it to the list for self introspection, letting the chips fall where they may. I in no way was button-holing Steaver or anyone else in particular. If Brother Bob was, let Brother Bob answer for himself. I never got that indication from what he said as I read him.

One thing is for certain, you had no cause to impinge my motives from what I wrote. Why not try and debate the issues that I presented to you instead of attacking personally, impinging motives you have not the slightest clue about.

I will tell you the facts, whether or not you accept it is your own decision. I did NOT have Steaver’s relationship with the Lord in mind in the least when I wrote that post, nor was I in any way trying to even draw a reflection or innuendo concerning his relationship with the Lord. I simply saw a verse that I believe we all can gain some good insight from if we will allow the Holy Spirit to use it to its best advantage.

 

[DHK]

HP: I have not, nor would I ever, question a person’s relationship with God on a debate forum. For what purpose would it serve? It certainly would add nothing at all to the debate on the issue, now would it? I do not have to claim innocence, nor naivety, for my motives were nothing more or less than to look at a passage mentioned and to present it to the list for self introspection, letting the chips fall where they may. I in no way was button-holing Steaver or anyone else in particular. If Brother Bob was, let Brother Bob answer for himself. I never got that indication from what he said as I read him.

One thing is for certain, you had no cause to impinge my motives from what I wrote. Why not try and debate the issues that I presented to you instead of attacking personally, impinging motives you have not the slightest clue about.

I will tell you the facts, whether or not you accept it is your own decision. I did NOT have Steaver’s relationship with the Lord in mind in the least when I wrote that post, nor was I in any way trying to even draw a reflection or innuendo concerning his relationship with the Lord. I simply saw a verse that I believe we all can gain some good insight from if we will allow the Holy Spirit to use it to its best advantage.

I will accept what you say for now.
But please read what has been written beforehand before you post.
Your post sounded like it was an agreement with Bob, in an agreed attack upon Steaver. Bob said "Test every spirit." You agreed with him. But what did he say that in reference to; what was the context? If you don't know then don't post. Otherwise you are simply joining in with an attack. I hope you can see that.

 

[Brother Bob]

I will accept what you say for now.
But please read what has been written beforehand before you post.
Your post sounded like it was an agreement with Bob, in an agreed attack upon Steaver. Bob said "Test every spirit." You agreed with him. But what did he say that in reference to; what was the context? If you don't know then don't post. Otherwise you are simply joining in with an attack. I hope you can see that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steaver
Since the subject is my conversion at age ten, does this scripture post suggest that the spirit that I was being drawn to when Billy Graham was preaching, the spirit that caused me to be remorseful of my sins and call on Jesus Christ to deliver me, save me, was not the spirit of Christ?

BBob:
I would hope that you asked God that, not me. I do not have the answer for you. Billy Graham did not have the answer for you. In case you do not know it, salvation is between you and God, period.

Martha, " I am the resurrection".

"I am the bread that came down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof and never die".

Only You and God, can work that out. Why would you even want someone else to answer that for you, are you in doubt? Do you ask your Pastor if you are saved or not, or do you ask God?

BBob

.................

Quote:
Originally Posted by steaver
Why did you post the "believe not every spirit" scripture?

BBob:
To show you there are more scripture in the bible than one and we must include them all.

Now, you read how that DHK and I went back and forth over this subject last night, how that I was threatened with being banned, then tonight you start the same subject. I Sir, believe you do not have good intentions and this is not a Christian act, but vengance of some sort on your part. Are you in some evil way, trying to get me banned, or are you just continuing asking the same question that has been answered many times.

I personally would feel silly and stupid, asking you if I was saved at a certain time and place. I think personally this is the most ridiculous request, I have ever heard. You either do not know scripture, or you are just trying to accomplish some evil act. I have answered you, and have absolutely nothing to add to when you were saved or where. I pray that I have made this as plain, so a child can understand. This is all my belief and opinion.

This has become very childish, so if you want children's games, please pick someone else.

BBob

You are so blinded by your own interpretations of all the posts, that no one can even reason with you. You have a one way thought process, and cannot be reached with any reason.

Now if you want to discuss, where you have questioned my salvation, I would be glad to oblige.

Scripture says to test every Spirit to see if it be of God, I would hope you do the same.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

.................

Scripture says to test every Spirit to see if it be of God, I would hope you do the same.

BBob,

This statement, when it was directed at Steaver, was not only questioning his salvation, but as Steaver himself pointed out to you, you were attributing his salvation to an evil spirit which he equated to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

In light of that, how kind were you to Steaver, and how many rules of the BB did you break?
I believe you owe someone an apology.

 

[Brother Bob]

This statement, when it was directed at Steaver, was not only questioning his salvation, but as Steaver himself pointed out to you, you were attributing his salvation to an evil spirit which he equated to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

In light of that, how kind were you to Steaver, and how many rules of the BB did you break?
I believe you owe someone an apology.

If what I said, was as you say, I would apologize, but you twist things to say what you want, which is in wally world.

I plainly have stated several times, that I do not question Steaver's salvation, that it is between him and the Lord. Why don't you try the Spirit that is leading you to call me a liar and no liars are going to heaven according to scripture, and apologize to me for questioning my salvation? You have accused me of lying every time I come on this board, which is questioning MY salvation. You really go overboard.

Originally Posted by steaver
Since the subject is my conversion at age ten, does this scripture post suggest that the spirit that I was being drawn to when Billy Graham was preaching, the spirit that caused me to be remorseful of my sins and call on Jesus Christ to deliver me, save me, was not the spirit of Christ?

Steaver ask me if I was suggesting this spirit was not of Christ. You twisted it to what you wanted it to say, which is deception and false.

I would hope that you asked God that, not me. I do not have the answer for you. Billy Graham did not have the answer for you. In case you do not know it, salvation is between you and God, period.

My answer to Steaver was I would hope he had ask God that question and not me, which again you twisted and made it say what you wanted it to say, which is deception and false.

Martha, " I am the resurrection".

"I am the bread that came down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof and never die".

Only You and God, can work that out. Why would you even want someone else to answer that for you, are you in doubt? Do you ask your Pastor if you are saved or not, or do you ask God?

BBob

I would hope that Steaver tried the Spirit, before making such a committment.

It is still between him and God, certainly not me or YOU!

You are insisting that I admit that I am a liar, of which I will NEVER do.

I think you owe someone an apology. If anyone "plays" God, and says they know when someone was saved, they shall be brought down.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

I would hope that Steaver tried the Spirit, before making such a committment.

I have never "tested" or tried the spirits regarding my own salvation, and I doubt that many others have either. The passage is written in the context of

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

One assumes from your post, then, that instead of accepting Steaver's testimony of salvation you tell him in so many words that perhaps he is demon-possessed or has the spirit of antichrist. That is really a fine thing to say, isn't it? The context of testing the spirits is in the context of demon spirits or demon possession--that spirit which is a spirit of antichrist. It is that spirit which confesses (and is adamant "that Jesus Christ is not come in the flesh." (in other word denying the incarnation and deity of Christ.)
This is what you are saying about Steaver, unwittingly.

It is still between him and God, certainly not me or YOU!

When you make such a bold statement like that it is between him and you, and you will be the one accountable to God, and now accountable to all who read it. A public apology would be in order.

You are insisting that I admit that I am a liar, of which I will NEVER do.

Your theology says: "I would neve lie." I caught you in a lie. I pointed it out to you. Your pride refuses to admit it. So you throw insults, and do whatever you can to deny that you never lied. Again you will give account for yourself before God. BTW, when that lie was explained in very simple terms to you so that you could understand your only answer was: "What childishness."
It is not childishness to God when a person lies.

I think you owe someone an apology. If anyone "plays" God, and says they know when someone was saved, they shall be brought down.
BBob,

Take heed to your own words.
Steaver was saved at the age of ten according to his own testimony.
I was saved at the age of twenty.
Are you going to deny my testimony as well? Is it also a lie?

At what age were you saved?
Or, do you have to test the spirits first to find out?

 

[Brother Bob]

I have never "tested" or tried the spirits regarding my own salvation, and I doubt that many others have either. The passage is written in the context of

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

One assumes from your post, then, that instead of accepting Steaver's testimony of salvation you tell him in so many words that perhaps he is demon-possessed or has the spirit of antichrist. That is really a fine thing to say, isn't it? The context of testing the spirits is in the context of demon spirits or demon possession--that spirit which is a spirit of antichrist. It is that spirit which confesses (and is adamant "that Jesus Christ is not come in the flesh." (in other word denying the incarnation and deity of Christ.)
This is what you are saying about Steaver, unwittingly.

When you make such a bold statement like that it is between him and you, and you will be the one accountable to God, and now accountable to all who read it. A public apology would be in order.

Your theology says: "I would neve lie." I caught you in a lie. I pointed it out to you. Your pride refuses to admit it. So you throw insults, and do whatever you can to deny that you never lied. Again you will give account for yourself before God. BTW, when that lie was explained in very simple terms to you so that you could understand your only answer was: "What childishness."
It is not childishness to God when a person lies.

Take heed to your own words.
Steaver was saved at the age of ten according to his own testimony.
I was saved at the age of twenty.
Are you going to deny my testimony as well? Is it also a lie?

At what age were you saved?
Or, do you have to test the spirits first to find out?

You scare me, is anyone with you right now? You have never ever ever caught me in a lie. You really worry me DHK; I will pray for you.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

You scare me, is anyone with you right now? You have never ever ever caught me in a lie. You really worry me DHK; I will pray for you.

BBob,

Originally Posted by DHK
The problem is not with John is it?
The problem is with Bob. Bob was deceptive in his post. Deceptiveness is the same as lying which Bob will not admit to.
DHK finished his verse, but Bob said he didn't. What do you make of that Bob?
Is that being truthful or not?

When confronted with the truth, your answer was: "Such childishness!"
Lying is not childishness.
Go back to the original post. See where your mistakes are, and where you refuse to admit them. The one who refuses to admit that he never lies is the one who ought to be worried.

Take heed to your own words.
Steaver was saved at the age of ten according to his own testimony.
I was saved at the age of twenty.
Are you going to deny my testimony as well? Is it also a lie?

At what age were you saved?
Or, do you have to test the spirits first to find out?

Why are you reluctant to answer this part of the post?