Greetings again steaver,
Concerning your recent posts I would like to simply state that regarding the Virgin Birth, I believe that God the Father was the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ and Mary was his mother, in the line of David who was promised a seed to sit as king 2 Samuel 7:12-16. Luke 1:35 clearly states that because God was Jesus’ Father, then Jesus would also be called the Son of God. This does not make Jesus a Deity, as he was made lower than the Angels Psalm 8, Hebrews 2. The following is rather lengthy, but is in response to your earlier post.
Why? You have decided that unless one has access to the original copies of the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts then one cannot know the Gospel of God. It is God who has provided His Word in English for the English speaking world to read and understand.
How about you just let the good ole KJV let it say what God has to say to us English speaking folk?
I appreciate some of your advice. As stated in a previous post my normal Bible is the KJV. It is my favourite translation and it has been all of my life. I now also do some Bible reading using a recently obtained Interlinear KJV / RV. I respect the OT portion of the RV more than the NT portion of the RV.
In most of the posts in this thread I have simply used the KJV to establish that there is One God the Father and that Jesus is the Son of God. I believe that this is the teaching of the Bible and can be simply and clearly established using the KJV.
I responded to 12strings when he quoted Isaiah 9:6. Concerning the word “mighty” in Isaiah 9:6, the following is from Strong’s in e-Sword:
H1368 gibbor: Intensive from the same as H1397; powerful; by implication warrior, tyrant: - champion, chief, X excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one), strong (man), valiant man.
It is not only from looking at Strong’s that the meaning of this phrase can be determined. You ask me to accept that this phrase is teaching the Trinity. But the basic meaning of the original words, and the context of this phrase in the verse, and in the chapter and in this portion of Isaiah 6-12, and in the book of Isaiah as a whole suggests to me that it is speaking of this future king’s role of overcoming the militancy of the nations and usher in a period of peace.
Isaiah prophesied during the reign of four kings, Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah. God helped Uzziah in the early part of his reign, taking heed to the counsel of a prophet Zechariah. But he made warfare and militancy was his crowning obsession. His success resulted in his pride and he tried to usurp the priesthood, and thus become a king-priest. God had separated these roles into the house of Levi and Judah until the true king-priest would arise, the Messiah. Uzziah was smitten with leprosy and the Kingdom of Judah descended into darkness with him. It was in the year that Uzziah died that Isaiah saw a vision of the future, depicting in contrast to Uzziah the true King-Priest sitting in the Temple with the earth filled with God’s glory.
Isaiah is commissioned as a prophet and he was told that his preaching was destined to be ineffectual as far as the nation as a whole was concerned, as they would be swept away into captivity. Judah would fail to see and hear, or to quote your phrase “In seeing they will not see, in hearing they will not hear” taken from Isaiah 6:9-10, similar to your statement “Praying for that veil to be removed” Isaiah 8:16. Despite this sombre role as a prophet to an unheeding nation, Isaiah started to gather a group of disciples Isaiah 8. It appears that among these was the prince Hezekiah, who had become more of a child of his mother Abijah, the daughter of Zechariah the prophet, than a son of the wicked King Ahaz. He was also instructed by God (compare also Isaiah 7:14, 11:1-5).
Isaiah started to witness to Ahaz in Isaiah 7 assuring him that the house of David would not be swept aside by the confederacy of Israel and Syria, but the king refused the prophet and his message. He hired the Assyrian and this was the start of the Assyrian ascendancy in this region. As a result some time later the Northern Kingdom of Israel was swept into captivity. In the context of this there was promised a child, a Son, who would receive the government.
Isaiah 9:6-7 (KJV): 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
This was typically and partially fulfilled in Hezekiah. He was not a militant man, but trusted in God. In his time of distress when he was close to death and when the Assyrian invaded and took all the cities of Judah except Jerusalem, God heard his prayer and the prayer of Isaiah, and God healed Hezekiah from his leprosy and destroyed the Assyrian army encamped around Jerusalem. The Servant Songs of Isaiah 42-53 are based in part on Hezekiah, but we all know that Isaiah 53 can only be completely fulfilled in Jesus and his sufferings, his deliverance from death and his conquest of the latter-day Assyrian.
A contemporary prophet also speaks of these things:
Micah 5:1-2 (KJV): 1 Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek. 2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Micah 5:5-6 (KJV): 5 And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. 6 And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.
Isaiah 53:12 (KJV): Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
What was tentatively and partially fulfilled in Hezekiah is yet to be fully outworked in the future work of the Lord Jesus Christ. David had conquered the champion Goliath, and Psalm 8 is based upon this incident. Jesus, who was not a man of carnal warfare like David, who would thus be qualified to build God’s Temple, would conquer sin in all its causes and effects, and by suffering the death on the Cross Hebrews 2. He has become the
captain of salvation to all those who put their trust in him. He is destined to be the new Lord of the New Creation as Psalm 8 depicts.
Psalm 8:5-6 (KJV): 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
He is yet to return and subject the nations to his command, as the little stone cut out of the mountains by Divine agency, he will conquer and destroy the militant man depicting the kingdoms of men in Daniel 2, and then Isaiah 9:6-7 will be fulfilled in all its details. Jesus is destined to be the Mighty Warrior or Champion, El Gibbor, of the Age to Come Isaiah 2:1-4 (another vision partially fulfilled in Hezekiah).
Kind regards
Trevor
