Trying to find a church home

[Particular]

But abounding love involves enriching feelings. To see just how crucial spiritual "feelings" have been in my life, read my evolving personal testimony under the Prayer and Praise section of this site. I have much more to share in that thread, which I will eventually add, but tomorrow night I will deliver my full testimony to an interdenominational meeting. Still, no one has warned of the dangers of feelings sabotaging charismatic manifestations more than me. Being skeptical by nature, I wouldn't even be a Christian today, were it not for those highly emotional experiences in my youth. You have given me an idea for a new thread on Faith and Feelings. So stay tuned for that and we can continue our discussion of this important question.

Really? Without the "highly emotional experiences in your youth" God would have been incapable of saving you? Really?

 

[utilyan]

Feel all you want. All you'll feel is an empty soul because you works will never save you.
Find a church where salvation by grace, through faith is taught and you will be in a Kingdom based church. Find a church where human feelings are emphasized and you will be in an entertainment center that feeds your flesh, your pride and your ego.

"ll you'll feel is an empty soul because you works will never save you.
Find a church where salvation by grace, through faith is taught and you will be in a Kingdom based church."

This is a LIE. Because you teach there is NOTHING a person can do, no Choice they can make that can save them. Neither can anyone outside cause their salvation.

God already without condition loves them or unconditionally hates them from the beginning of time.

In other words You are saying they can "better their chances" by switching religions. Then surely the GOOD WORK of picking the right religion DOES SAVE.

If you had a lick of COMMON SENSE. You would not bother us about what WE DO. Since we are the ones who say WHAT YOU DO is REQUIRED.

So since YOU cannot save us and WE cannot CHOOSE to be saved.

Your only logical option. Is to PRAY to the tyrant you mistook for God and beg him to save us.

Praying for our salvation is something you find disgusting. Get back to vanity and gloat about your own salvation.

 

[Particular]

"ll you'll feel is an empty soul because you works will never save you.
Find a church where salvation by grace, through faith is taught and you will be in a Kingdom based church."

This is a LIE. Because you teach there is NOTHING a person can do, no Choice they can make that can save them. Neither can anyone outside cause their salvation.

God already without condition loves them or unconditionally hates them from the beginning of time.

In other words You are saying they can "better their chances" by switching religions. Then surely the GOOD WORK of picking the right religion DOES SAVE.

If you had a lick of COMMON SENSE. You would not bother us about what WE DO. Since we are the ones who say WHAT YOU DO is REQUIRED.

So since YOU cannot save us and WE cannot CHOOSE to be saved.

Your only logical option. Is to PRAY to the tyrant you mistook for God and beg him to save us.

Praying for our salvation is something you find disgusting. Get back to vanity and gloat about your own salvation.

You sure have a twisted and misunderstood concept of God and his gracious choice of sinners.
It seems you may not read the Bible, but instead rely on hatred and prejudice. If you knew what God says, you would not be so bitter. But, there is hope for you. If God chose to redeem Saul after he terrorized Christians and approved their martyrdom, surely God can choose to Redeem you as well.

 

[utilyan]

You sure have a twisted and misunderstood concept of God and his gracious choice of sinners.
It seems you may not read the Bible, but instead rely on hatred and prejudice. If you knew what God says, you would not be so bitter. But, there is hope for you. If God chose to redeem Saul after he terrorized Christians and approved their martyrdom, surely God can choose to Redeem you as well.

"But, there is hope for you."

Oh really? WHAT MUST I DO?

Particular listen to yourself. You are saying there is hope for me based on WHAT I DO.

That is not your theology. Your theology is you give the gospel which is what? IF GOD LOVES YOU, he will save you, IF GOD HATES YOU, he will damn you. The only act you can do is give the gospel.

Your theology teaches there is NOTHING I CAN DO. With words I can have a person humble themselves to God, In your theology that DOES NOTHING. I cannot save another person, You cannot.

If you actually believe your theology and actually cared for me, you would be praying to GOD to elect and save me.

But YOU DONT EVEN TRUST GOD. You think you have to do this. YOU think YOU have to change a person's mind.

Just like the MEME you posted So what if I become saintly, If I don't steal, don't cuss........That does not make them elect.

You are saying I have to change my quality to qualify for election. For the love of God USE COMMON SENSE.

 

[utilyan]

"It seems you may not read the Bible, but instead rely on hatred and prejudice."

So what? is that a quality by which you were chosen elect? An hour before you were "saved" were you no longer bitter, no longer hating of God?


Your theology teaches God might pick the bitter man not the joyful one. its called UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION. You are teaching there is a CONDITION and qualification to being elect.

 

[utilyan]

If a REAL CALVINIST who actually believes what they teach was here.

He need only do one thing. Preach the gospel to a person once. And then pray to God to take care of it.

That is it and that is final. All those who lie to themselves and don't believe their own teaching squabble and debate with non believers.

 

[Particular]

"But, there is hope for you."

Oh really? WHAT MUST I DO?

Particular listen to yourself. You are saying there is hope for me based on WHAT I DO.

That is not your theology. Your theology is you give the gospel which is what? IF GOD LOVES YOU, he will save you, IF GOD HATES YOU, he will damn you. The only act you can do is give the gospel.

Your theology teaches there is NOTHING I CAN DO. With words I can have a person humble themselves to God, In your theology that DOES NOTHING. I cannot save another person, You cannot.

If you actually believe your theology and actually cared for me, you would be praying to GOD to elect and save me.

But YOU DONT EVEN TRUST GOD. You think you have to do this. YOU think YOU have to change a person's mind.

Just like the MEME you posted So what if I become saintly, If I don't steal, don't cuss........That does not make them elect.

You are saying I have to change my quality to qualify for election. For the love of God USE COMMON SENSE.

There is hope. God may choose to pardon instead of justly sentencing sinners to hell. Peter says it best. "Repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sin." Those destined to just sentencing will not repent. Those whom God chooses to pardon will repent. I can't coerce them, I can't force them to repent. They may spend their entire life thinking the message is foolishness. That is the natural reaction of all sinners. But, those who hear the gospel and repent, will be forgiven. Jesus said all whom the Father gives him will hear his voice. Have you heard his voice, utilyan?

 

[utilyan]

There is hope. God may choose to pardon instead of justly sentencing sinners to hell. Peter says it best. "Repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sin." Those destined to just sentencing will not repent. Those whom God chooses to pardon will repent. I can't coerce them, I can't force them to repent. They may spend their entire life thinking the message is foolishness. That is the natural reaction of all sinners. But, those who hear the gospel and repent, will be forgiven. Jesus said all whom the Father gives him will hear his voice. Have you heard his voice, utilyan?

I always hear his voice.

." I can't coerce them, I can't force them to repent."

Exactly, So unless there is something I HAVE TO DO, why don't you PRAY to God to pardon more people?


The day before you were "SAVED" you weren't trying to be saved were you? You were bitter and a hater right?


Or have you ever had one of those ROCK-BOTTOM moments when you finally convicted of your sins and finally realized how wrong and wretched you were? And you beg for forgiveness, sad and depressing....... and the all the sudden you get the butterflies, that light and warmth from inside beaming out of your heart. And you knew then God loves you.

 

[Particular]

I always hear his voice.

." I can't coerce them, I can't force them to repent."

Exactly, So unless there is something I HAVE TO DO, why don't you PRAY to God to pardon more people?


The day before you were "SAVED" you weren't trying to be saved were you? You were bitter and a hater right?


Or have you ever had one of those ROCK-BOTTOM moments when you finally convicted of your sins and finally realized how wrong and wretched you were? And you beg for forgiveness, sad and depressing....... and the all the sudden you get the butterflies, that light and warmth from inside beaming out of your heart. And you knew then God loves you.

Do you think I don't pray for people to be pardoned?
Perhaps you imagine I know the mind of God and can pick out those God will choose from a mile away. News flash, I can't. I have to entrust that the gospel message will be spoken to all men and that God might choose to save them. God would show his grace by pardoning and he would show his justice by not pardoning. He is Supreme. He makes the decision, not me. But, I can pray. I can plead. God may answer and say yes. God may say no. God may say wait. God has that right. I'm content with God having that right.
Are you content with God having the right to choose, utilyan?

 

[utilyan]

Do you think I don't pray for people to be pardoned?
Perhaps you imagine I know the mind of God and can pick out those God will choose from a mile away. News flash, I can't. I have to entrust that the gospel message will be spoken to all men and that God might choose to save them. God would show his grace by pardoning and he would show his justice by not pardoning. He is Supreme. He makes the decision, not me. But, I can pray. I can plead. God may answer and say yes. God may say no. God may say wait. God has that right. I'm content with God having that right.
Are you content with God having the right to choose, utilyan?

He told me yes before I could ask. He told me yes even while I question "are you sure?"

God's will is not a mystery to me.

John 15

12“This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13“Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. 14“You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15“No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17“This I command you, that you love one another.

We know the will of God.

1 John 3

10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

I can spot if you are going the right way or not quite easily. It is OBVIOUS.

 

[Particular]

He told me yes before I could ask. He told me yes even while I question "are you sure?"

God's will is not a mystery to me.

John 15

12“This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13“Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. 14“You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15“No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17“This I command you, that you love one another.

We know the will of God.

1 John 3

10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

I can spot if you are going the right way or not quite easily. It is OBVIOUS.

Sure. We can see if a person is walking along a wise path. We cannot know if God has chosen to save them, except by their joy in God's gracious redemption of their sins by Christ alone. Many will cry out "Lord, Lord, and God will say, I never knew you."

 

[utilyan]

Sure. We can see if a person is walking along a wise path. We cannot know if God has chosen to save them, except by their joy in God's gracious redemption of their sins by Christ alone. Many will cry out "Lord, Lord, and God will say, I never knew you."

NO scripture clearly says :

1 John 3

10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Spotting a child of God is OBVIOUS. You can't tell who a child of God is? I got news for you buddy.....REPENT.

No where does it state it is a mystery. We know who is disciple, we know who is a child of God, We know God's will.

I am giving you scripture. YOU cannot state the opposite because your view is unbiblical.

I can give you scripture after scripture. Where is yours that says you don't know?

John 13
34“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

I can say God loves you! You can't say God loves anyone because you do not love your brother, YOU cannot even spot them.

 

[Particular]

NO scripture clearly says :

1 John 3

10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Spotting a child of God is OBVIOUS. You can't tell who a child of God is? I got news for you buddy.....REPENT.

No where does it state it is a mystery. We know who is disciple, we know who is a child of God, We know God's will.

I am giving you scripture. YOU cannot state the opposite because your view is unbiblical.

I can give you scripture after scripture. Where is yours that says you don't know?

John 13
34“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

I can say God loves you! You can't say God loves anyone because you do not love your brother, YOU cannot even spot them.

Who can practice righteousness? Can anyone who tries, practice righteousness?
What scripture clarifies this for us? God gives us much scripture so that the whole of scripture interprets the specific verse or phrase that a person may look at.
How does one become a child of God? What scripture tells us how we become a child of God?

Colossians 1:11-14 May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy, giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light. He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Ephesians 2:4-7 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

So.
How do we become children of God so that the child of God becomes obvious and their righteousness is shown?

Utilyan, please do not run from God's word.

 

[Adonia]

God may choose to pardon instead of justly sentencing sinners to hell.

I just love the concept of God's mercy.

 

[Particular]

I just love the concept of God's mercy.

That's God's grace.

God's mercy is that he is patient before his judgment is pronounced. God doesn't kill us immediately, even while we are dead in our sins.

God's grace is that he chooses to pardon someone by the substitutionary atonement of Christ.
God is under no obligation to show mercy or to save by grace. He does so by his own choosing.

 

[Deadworm]

NTChristian,

I urge you to make your quest for the right church a mystical quest. By that I mean, do a lot of church hopping with the expectation that the right church will almost choose you rather than vice versa! Perhaps you will sense that your gifts and personality are ideally suited to making a difference in a particular church. Or you might encounter a group of people who trigger a desire in you to get to know them better and worship with them. The right Aha! moment might happen in a denomination that surprises you.

I am part of a weekly prayer group that has seen many miracles, but also suffered disappointing nonanswers to prayer. I have 2 dear friends who urgently need a healing touch: one is a bipolar schizophrenic who loves the Lord, but often hears voices that make him feel like he is Satan and the other a godly engineer who now has trouble breathing because of his congestive heart failure disease. My prayers for both have been ineffective in securing a lasting cure. So I'm looking for prayer support from Ron, an Assembly of God layman, whose angry prayer of deliverance recently instantly healed his wife of advanced congestive heart failure with badly swollen legs, etc. And we've recently recruited Mark who healed my friend Dave and James, the owner of a nearby restaurant, of severe blood clots. I'm seeking their involvement in humble recognition that, despite my successes in intercessory prayer, I have deficiencies in my faith that hamper healing for some who desperate need a healing touch. Our prayer group must not rest on its laurels, but needs to include others who might make it even more effective.

 

[Particular]

NTChristian,

I urge you to make your quest for the right church a mystical quest. By that I mean, do a lot of church hopping with the expectation that the right church will almost choose you rather than vice versa! Perhaps you will sense that your gifts and personality are ideally suited to making a difference in a particular church. Or you might encounter a group of people who trigger a desire in you to get to know them better and worship with them. The right Aha! moment might happen in a denomination that surprises you.

I am part of a weekly prayer group that has seen many miracles, but also suffered disappointing nonanswers to prayer. I have 2 dear friends who urgently need a healing touch: one is a bipolar schizophrenic who loves the Lord, but often hears voices that make him feel like he is Satan and the other a godly engineer who now has trouble breathing because of his congestive heart failure disease. My prayers for both have been ineffective in securing a lasting cure. So I'm looking for prayer support from Ron, an Assembly of God layman, whose angry prayer of deliverance recently instantly healed his wife of advanced congestive heart failure with badly swollen legs, etc. And we've recently recruited Mark who healed my friend Dave and James, the owner of a nearby restaurant, of severe blood clots. I'm seeking their involvement in humble recognition that, despite my successes in intercessory prayer, I have deficiencies in my faith that hamper healing for some who desperate need a healing touch. Our prayer group must not rest on its laurels, but needs to include others who might make it even more effective.

What is your quest...

 

[Adonia]

That's God's grace.

God's mercy is that he is patient before his judgment is pronounced. God doesn't kill us immediately, even while we are dead in our sins.

God's grace is that he chooses to pardon someone by the substitutionary atonement of Christ.
God is under no obligation to show mercy or to save by grace. He does so by his own choosing.

Merriam-Webster defines mercy as a: blessing that is an act of divine favor or compassion". Grace is defined as an: unmerited divine assistance given to humans for their regeneration or sanctification; a virtue coming from God; a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine assistance.

I think you are splitting hairs here. Even God having mercy on one could be looked at as unmerited just like grace is. Even mercy results in a persons regeneration (spiritual renewal or revival) i.e. in this case entry into heaven.

And of course, both come as a result of God's choosing.

 

[utilyan]

Who can practice righteousness? Can anyone who tries, practice righteousness?
What scripture clarifies this for us? God gives us much scripture so that the whole of scripture interprets the specific verse or phrase that a person may look at.
How does one become a child of God? What scripture tells us how we become a child of God?

Colossians 1:11-14 May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy, giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light. He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Ephesians 2:4-7 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

So.
How do we become children of God so that the child of God becomes obvious and their righteousness is shown?

Utilyan, please do not run from God's word.

Great Scripture. I see you couldn't find anything to support your mystery stance on who is a child of God or not.

"Who can practice righteousness? Can anyone who tries, practice righteousness?"

Who can walk? Can anyone who tries, walk?

Yes practicing righteousness is a standard GOD GIVEN capacity.


"What scripture clarifies this for us? "

The Conscience is God's Law written on every heart.


Romans 2

12For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


Did you ever follow your good conscience when you were a unbeliever? Of course.



"How does one become a child of God? What scripture tells us how we become a child of God?"

Welcome to BASIC CHRISTIANITY:

Matthew 5

43“You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ 44“But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46“For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47“If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


Love is the highest priority not cowardliness, power-mongering, fear and terrorism.

We preach the GOOD NEWS. What do you tell people I got great news......God might hate you, Jesus might have died for you? You can't even call Good news. You don't have a gospel. Gospel= good news.


1 timothy 1
5But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.



Your good conscience, is the LAW written in your heart. That is the voice of God and even now you HAVE to tell it to shut up or call it emotionalism. Shelve it as weakness. That has been a timeless theme of Good VS Evil. Evil always looks at good as weak and prioritizes based on POWER and FEAR.

 

[Particular]

Merriam-Webster defines mercy as a: blessing that is an act of divine favor or compassion". Grace is defined as an: unmerited divine assistance given to humans for their regeneration or sanctification; a virtue coming from God; a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine assistance.

I think you are splitting hairs here. Even God having mercy on one could be looked at as unmerited just like grace is. Even mercy results in a persons regeneration (spiritual renewal or revival) i.e. in this case entry into heaven.

And of course, both come as a result of God's choosing.

Mercy: God not giving you what you deserve (eternal damnation).

Grace: God giving you what you don't deserve (eternal salvation).