Trying to understand John 8:47

[Blammo]

Don't be pulled into the logic that has to be in order to make this verse say what the calvinists want it to say. Nor of the will of man, has nothing to do with freedom God has given man to accept or reject Him.

John 1:9-13 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I'm not necessarily jumping on their bandwagon. However, I do see what they are saying.

They are saying:

1) "As many as received him" seems to contradict "the world knew him not" and "his own received him not"
2) Therefore "as many as received him" were given that power, and they believe "born of God" is where that power came from.

I can see that. I don't think it squares with all scripture, but I can see it here.

I agree with you that "not of the will of man" simply refers to the new birth, and has nothing to do with belief or faith.

 

[webdog]

John 1:9-13 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I'm not necessarily jumping on their bandwagon. However, I do see what they are saying.

They are saying:

1) "As many as received him" seems to contradict "the world knew him not" and "his own received him not"
2) Therefore "as many as received him" were given that power, and they believe "born of God" is where that power came from.

I can see that. I don't think it squares with all scripture, but I can see it here.

I agree with you that "not of the will of man" simply refers to the new birth, and has nothing to do with belief or faith.

The reason so many things seem to contradict is because everything is looked at within the scope of time...a measurement made for humans. We cannot understand everything about God and Scripture if we hold to that notion. I just posted this from A. Badger on the other thread that backs this...


What God knows He determines, and what He determines He knows. This being so, those who God eternally and unmistakably knows as believers He chooses. Consequently, those who believe are those who He chooses or elects. There need be no before or after, no logical or chronological progression in His eternal knowledge, no decision to elect based on anything except for the carrying out of His eternal decree, which decree was always in place. Therefore, there is no need to 1) postulate an eternal covenant between the members of the Godhead, 2) propose a logical order in relation to whether God’s decisions followed one or the other, 3) ask the question whether or not election is based on foreknowledge or whether foreknowledge of one’s salvation is based on election. As God elects, from His eternal, present tense perspective, He also works out His sovereign purpose within the framework of history on a moment- by-moment basis. His eternal electing activity is applied throughout the progression of history, which He is controlling, and He does so in accord with the ability of men to believe (and without coercion) when the gospel message is clearly presented, when we perceive the free offer of eternal life as most valuable and beneficial to us, and when we are fully assured and convinced by His Spirit that what God has promised, He is able to perform (cf. Rom 4:21).

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

I understand calvinists believe the lost cannot believe, because they cannot hear, because they are spiritually dead. After studying John 1-8 tonight, I am seeing it a little differently. I believe the lost remain spiritually dead as a result of unbelief, therefore, they cannot hear. In other words, it seems calvinists put "born again" before "belief", while it looks like the actual order is "belief" before "born again". So, the way I understand John 8:47 is, because of pride, these guys won't believe Jesus is the Christ, therefore they are not born again, and that is why they do not hear God's words.

John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you. The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

why did they hear? Proverbs 20:12 the hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the Lord hath made even both of them.

Romans 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever, Amen.

People will take that through Jesus Christ we have peace with the Father but they do not consider that we don't Come to Christ except it be of the Father.

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

1 John 5:1 Whosoever Believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:

 

[Blammo]

The reason so many things seem to contradict is because everything is looked at within the scope of time...a measurement made for humans. We cannot understand everything about God and Scripture if we hold to that notion. I just posted this from A. Badger on the other thread that backs this...


What God knows He determines, and what He determines He knows. This being so, those who God eternally and unmistakably knows as believers He chooses. Consequently, those who believe are those who He chooses or elects. There need be no before or after, no logical or chronological progression in His eternal knowledge, no decision to elect based on anything except for the carrying out of His eternal decree, which decree was always in place. Therefore, there is no need to 1) postulate an eternal covenant between the members of the Godhead, 2) propose a logical order in relation to whether God’s decisions followed one or the other, 3) ask the question whether or not election is based on foreknowledge or whether foreknowledge of one’s salvation is based on election. As God elects, from His eternal, present tense perspective, He also works out His sovereign purpose within the framework of history on a moment- by-moment basis. His eternal electing activity is applied throughout the progression of history, which He is controlling, and He does so in accord with the ability of men to believe (and without coercion) when the gospel message is clearly presented, when we perceive the free offer of eternal life as most valuable and beneficial to us, and when we are fully assured and convinced by His Spirit that what God has promised, He is able to perform (cf. Rom 4:21).

Reminds me of something I posted on another thread.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Actually occured 2000 years ago.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

For me, actually occured 20 years ago.

 

[Jarthur001]

What God knows He determines, and what He determines He knows. This being so, those who God eternally and unmistakably knows as believers He chooses. Consequently, those who believe are those who He chooses or elects.

Hogwash. There is no Bible verse to back this. Election is always for Gods pleasure. God does not elect because He knows. God knows for He is GOD!! Foreknowing is NOT knowing as in leaning from man what man will do. God can not learn anything from us. God KNOWS for God is GOD.

God elects because of His pleasure to do so.

 

[npetreley]

Reminds me of something I posted on another thread.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Actually occured 2000 years ago.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

For me, actually occured 20 years ago.

There's actually no comparison there. They only seem similar. First, the words are different. The word "from" is not the same as "before", not in meaning, and not in the Greek.

More important, if you look at the Greek, "from the foundation of the world" refers back to "the book of life of the lamb slain", not "slain". Look at the separation, or parsing of the Greek (noted by Olivetree's KJV, not my own personal interpretation):
[SIZE=+1]
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] And all that dwell ---- upon the earth shall worship ---- him, whose names are not written ---- in the book of life of the Lamb slain ---- from the foundation of the world .


[/SIZE]

 

[Blammo]

John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you

I take it you think this is the cause of unbelief. Would you acknowledge that it could be the evidence of unbelief?

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

The verse says "... no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father". It does not say all men will come unto him when it is given unto them of the Father.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

1 John 5:1 Whosoever Believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:

Yep. The question is: What comes first, belief, or the new birth.

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

They did not say: If God regenerates you, you will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, because you are saved, and maybe your house will be too.

 

[Blammo]

More important, if you look at the Greek, "from the foundation of the world" refers back to "the book of life of the lamb slain", not "slain".

Looks like you are correct:

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

"He shoots, he scores!!!" :applause:

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

Lamb slain from the foundation of the World. I look at it, that he was purposed to die for his bride before he ever made man and before man ever fell. That God did not purpose Adam to fall but permitted the fall for his purpose. To be Glorified as the Savior. thats why he made him subject to vanity.

Chosen us in Him before the foundation of the World.

I look at this as legal but not Vital. When you were quickened by the Spirit then it was vital and you passed from death unto life. But that he predestinated to do that very thing.

Forknew, Elected, Predestinated, Called, Sanctified/Justified, Glorified.

I believe this is an order of things. also I believe the call is as in 2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, You Could put Saved before Called as in Eternal application. (I view some called and Saved in a time sense. as in preaching the gospel and water baptism.)

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

Yep. The question is: What comes first, belief, or the new birth.

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

They did not say: If God regenerates you, you will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, because you are saved, and maybe your house will be too.[/QUOTE]

Acts 13:48 ........: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them the believe for there is no difference:

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

The verse says "... no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father". It does not say all men will come unto him when it is given unto them of the Father.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.


Okay if Christ be lifted up he will draw all men unto him.

John 6:44 no man can come to me. except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus said draw all men but says down here they can not come unless the Father draw them.

This makes me think of the verse. We are not of them that draw back to perdition but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. are those that believe are the ones the Father drew.
look at John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. and it goes on to say they have not the word in them because whom he hath sent they believe not. But like in Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is the word of faith, wich we preach.

So those that are born of the Word = believe. the Word as in John 1:1

 

[pinoybaptist]

If the physically dead can hear Christ, why can't the spiritually dead?

Because many physically dead have been brought to spiritual life before they became physically dead, while many who are spiritually dead cannot hear because of their dead spiritual ears even though their living physical ears can hear a whisper from the other room.

 

[TheWinDork]

First of all, One must look at this contextually, He was addressing the Pharisees. and he was trying, (without success, of course) to prove to these people, who He really was, which was the Son of the Living God. and of course, because their eyes were blinded by God, they didn't see this. Why did God blind thier eyes? Because God wanted to fulfill Prophecy of Scripture. Had they believed Him, He would have never been put on the Cross.

For further help, I'll include some commentaries on the Scripture.

Joh 8:47 -
He that is of God - He that loves, fears, and honors God.
Heareth God’s words - Listens to, or attends to the doctrines or commandments of God, as a child who loves his parent will regard and obey his commandments. This is an evidence of true piety. A willingness to receive all that God teaches us and to obey all his commandments, is an undoubted proof that we are his friends, Joh_14:21; 1Jo_2:4; 1Jo_3:24. As the Jews did not show a readiness to obey the commands of God, it proved that they were not of him, and to this was owing their rejection of the Lord Jesus. --- Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible - Albert Barnes (1798-1870)

Joh 8:47 -
He that is of God; to be of God, here, is opposed to a being not of God, and so may be understood to comprehend election, as well as regeneration.

Heareth God’s words; he heareth, acknowledgeth, believeth, and patiently submits to the will of God revealed in his word.
The reason why you, though with your ears ye hear the word of God, yet do not in heart receive, and embrace, and believe it, nor can submit to it, is

because ye are not of God, not chosen of him, not savingly enlightened and regenerated by him. So as this text affords us an excellent note, by which we may know whether we be regenerated, and of God, yea or no. That is, our believing and yielding obedience to the will of God revealed in his word. By this saying of our Saviour, he seemeth to acquiesce in the will of God, concerning these refractory and unbelieving Jews, notwithstanding all the pains he had taken with them to enlighten and bring them to the saving knowledge of the truth. It pleased not his Father to open their eyes that they might see, or their hearts that they might understand. This ought in like manner to satisfy all the true and faithful ministers of the gospel, when they see they have laboured in vain, and spent their strength for nothing and in vain. When they have done all they can, they will find this of our Saviour true, That the work must be God’s, and not theirs; and no more hearts will be changed, than theirs who are of God. -- Matthew Poole

Joh 8:47 - He that is of God,.... Who is born, not of blood, by carnal descent from any person, or of the carnal will, or by the power of freewill, or of the will of the best man in the world; but of God, according to his abundant mercy, of his own will, by the power of his grace; and so has God to be his Father: such an one
heareth God's words; the doctrines of the Gospel, which have God for their author, being of his ordaining, sending, and publishing; and his grace for the matter of them, displayed in election, redemption, justification, pardon, adoption, and eternal salvation, and his glory for the end: now a regenerate man has eyes to see into the glory, loveliness, excellency, suitableness, and usefulness of these things; and he has ears to hear, and a heart to understand them, which others have not; and therefore hears them with pleasure, receives them in the love of them, cordially embraces them by faith, and distinguishes them from the words of man; and puts such of them in practice, as requires it:
ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God; because God was not their Father, or they were not born of him, as they boasted; therefore they had not eyes to see, nor ears to hear, nor hearts to understand: and it may as fairly be inferred, that because they did not hear the words of God, therefore they were not of God; for these two necessarily imply each other; it looks very dark on such persons, who neither hear the doctrines of the Gospel externally nor internally. John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - Dr. John Gill (1690-1771)

Joh 8:47 -
47. He who is of God. As he has a full right to take this for granted, that he is the ambassador of the heavenly Father, and that he discharges faithfully the office which has been committed to him, he kindles into greater indignation against them; for their impiety was no longer concealed, since they were so obstinate in rejecting the word of God. He had showed that they could not bring forward any thing which he had not taught as from the mouth of God. He concludes, therefore, that they have nothing in common with God, for they do not hear the words of God;242 and, without saying any thing about himself, he charges them with being at war with God. Besides, we are taught by this passage, that there is not a more evident sign of a reprobate mind, than when one cannot endure the doctrine of Christ, even though, in other respects, it shone with angelic sanctity; as, on the contrary, if we embrace that doctrine cheerfully, we have what may be called a visible seal of our election. For he who has the word enjoys God himself; but he who rejects it excludes himself from righteousness and life. Wherefore, there is nothing which we ought to fear so much as to fall under that dreadful sentence. - John Calvin's Notes

I hope this helps you in your study of the Word of God.

-TWD :wavey:

 

[webdog]

Because many physically dead have been brought to spiritual life before they became physically dead, while many who are spiritually dead cannot hear because of their dead spiritual ears even though their living physical ears can hear a whisper from the other room.

I'm talking about acutal dead person's responding to Christ, not metaphorically speaking. The physically dead can respond to Christ...but the spiritually dead cannot unless the Holy Spirit allows.

 

[webdog]

Hogwash. There is no Bible verse to back this. Election is always for Gods pleasure. God does not elect because He knows. God knows for He is GOD!! Foreknowing is NOT knowing as in leaning from man what man will do. God can not learn anything from us. God KNOWS for God is GOD.

God elects because of His pleasure to do so.

As someone who holds that God only exists now in our now...it would be hogwash. Please stop limiting God's omnipresence.

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

I'm talking about acutal dead person's responding to Christ, not metaphorically speaking. The physically dead can respond to Christ...but the spiritually dead cannot unless the Holy Spirit allows.

I would like to look at John 5:25-29 in 25 we have the physically living but spiritually dead. They are made alive spiritually but yet they physically die.

then in 28 He calls both of them from the Grave. the spiritually alive and spiritually dead's bodies or dust that are both in the graves.

My Point is God can speak to the Dead. How ever ya want to take it. Its his voice that makes them alive. or raises them from their state. He speaks it and it comes to pass. His voice is not trying to do anything it does it. The gospel preaching would be a witness of this in the spiritually alive. God voice is not done through a preacher to make one alive. if so then shut the window in your service if you have a grave yard out back. I thought I would throw that in there. .......BJS

 

[J.D.]

I agree 100%

Is any one "of God" before they believe that Jesus is the Christ? Were you "of God" before you believed.

Please understand, I realize why these proud Israelites could not believe. It was prophesied. (Isaiah, right?) My questions are: Was this a temporary blindness until after the cross? Or, is this proof that all who don't believe are being blinded by God to keep them from getting saved?

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

I'm going to show three verses that seem to suggest the blindness was not caused by God, though He did allow it.

Ezekiel 12:2 Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Can you share a verse that shows God as the cause of the blindness?

Hello Blammo, your questions here have been excellenty dealt with already, but here's my version:

Is any one "of God" before they believe that Jesus is the Christ? Were you "of God" before you believed.

People can be "of God" as in "the elect of God", and they can be "of God" as in "Born of God". The word "of" generally indicates origin. So, if someone is elect of God, then their election orginates in God. If they are born of God, then their birth originates in God. Check out Rom 11:36 "For of him (origin), and through him (deliverer), and to him (receiver), are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen."

I think John, as agrees the commentators, clearly speaks of those that are "of God" as those that are BORN of God. He establishes it in the first chapter v13.

So then we look at the new birth to understand what it is to be "born of God". In the third chapter, John give a clear, undisputable account of the new birth. Unfortunately, most people read John Ch 3 this way:

Ye must be born again.....whosoever believeth in him shall have everlasting life.

From this understanding, they naturally assume that the way to be born again is to believe. But the part that they leave out in the elipse is really the most important part, and it's the left-out part that contains the answer to Nicodemus' question "how can a man be born when he is old?". Now lets put John 3 in context:

Ye must be born again, or esle you can't see...how to be born again?...the wind (pnuema, spirit) bloweth where it listeth (wishes, desires)...so is every man that is born of the spirit...and whosoever believeth should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Now obviously that's not a complete exigesis but it'll do for the purpose here.

So we see that birth must preceed belief. Now you can find passages which seem, on the surface, to say th opposite, that you must believe to be born again. Acts 16 is one of the most popular "and they said to him believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved". So then how do we understand the Phillipian jailer in light of John 3? Well, we have to understand the individual elements of salvation, that includes election, regeneration, justification, sanctification, glorification, conversion, repentance, faith, redemption, reconciliation, forgiveness, atonement, and many other facets that I can't immediately recall. But regardless of the entanglements of all those doctrines, always keep it simple and remember - BIRTH is FIRST in TIME (but not sequence, election, foreknowledge, and predestination obviously preceeds birth in time, having taken place in eternity).

So, who can believe? Those that are born of God, who are born by the Spirit. To say otherwise is to say that they believe because they believe, or, they don't believe because they don't believe, which fails to recognize the origin of belief.

Were you "of God" before you believed

.

Based on what I said above, I was "of God" before I believed, being "elect of God" from eternity, and "born of God" by His Spirit in time, inabling me to believe.

Was this a temporary blindness until after the cross?

I'm assuming that your basing your question of your understanding of the Lord's promise that all men would be drawn to him if he be lifted up. Well, it is clearly evident that the blindness of Israel was not removed after the cross, for Israel rejected the Apostles as they did the Lord, which the Lord himself said they would do. In fact, Israel completely (in a general sense) apostasized, and felt God's wrath in 70 a.d. Every single person is born blind and remains so unless God opens their eyes. The "all men" that were and are drawn to Christ after the cross refers to men of all nations and kinds. Check the context of the passage. What had happened? Lazarus had been resurrected, and some Gentiles, Greeks, had heard of the deed, for the news of it was spreading abroad. "They would see Jesus", and Jesus upon hearing this declared that all men would be drawn unto him if he be lifted up. And the prophecy was fulfilled, for the Gospel did spread throughout the "whole world" (so says scripture, but understand the context of that also - the scope does not include every single place in the world) after the resurrection of Christ.

Can you share a verse that shows God as the cause of the blindness?

Yes, I can show you verses that show that God causes blindness. Here's one: John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. And some others have been supplied in other posts.

But God does not HAVE to blind people in order for them to be reprobated to hell. People are born blind, cursed by their father Adam's sin. God has to do nothing but pass them over, leave them in their fallen state, He doesn't have to actively ensure their doom. Those references where we find God actively blinding people are speaking to specific purposes according to God's will, usually to aggrevate their rebellion, and to show His power over the flesh, as in the hardening of Pharoe for the purpose of spreading the fame of God's power throughout the world.

I think this is the longest post I've ever done and I hope it's been helpful. I will now return to my usual tactic of throwing "zingers" into the conversation here and there.

 

[Blammo]

People can be "of God" as in "the elect of God", and they can be "of God" as in "Born of God". The word "of" generally indicates origin. So, if someone is elect of God, then their election orginates in God. If they are born of God, then their birth originates in God. Check out Rom 11:36 "For of him (origin), and through him (deliverer), and to him (receiver), are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen."

Good answer. I think there may be a third definition for "of God":

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Could it be, believing God, is another form of being "of God"? I guess you would say, "Abraham believed God because he was of God", but, could it be said that, "Abraham was of God because he believed God"? In other words, Abraham was a follower of God, he did not go about to establish his own righteousness, but submitted himself unto the righteousness of God. The same could be said of Paul, he did a great amount of evil, but, his motive was to please God, not to elevate himself, not to take pride in his own righteousness, he did it ignorantly in unbelief.

I think John, as agrees the commentators, clearly speaks of those that are "of God" as those that are BORN of God. He establishes it in the first chapter v13.

Yes, as I said before, I can see how one would read it that way. It makes sense either way: Those who received him were born of God, or, those who were born of God received him.

So then we look at the new birth to understand what it is to be "born of God". In the third chapter, John give a clear, undisputable account of the new birth. Unfortunately, most people read John Ch 3 this way:

Ye must be born again.....whosoever believeth in him shall have everlasting life.

From this understanding, they naturally assume that the way to be born again is to believe. But the part that they leave out in the elipse is really the most important part, and it's the left-out part that contains the answer to Nicodemus' question "how can a man be born when he is old?". Now lets put John 3 in context:

Ye must be born again, or esle you can't see...how to be born again?...the wind (pnuema, spirit) bloweth where it listeth (wishes, desires)...so is every man that is born of the spirit...and whosoever believeth should not perish, but have everlasting life.

His answer to Nicodemus is "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit". Nicodemus was thinking natural birth, Jesus was telling him it is spiritual. The "wind" illustration was to help Nicodemus understand, you can't see the wind, but you can hear it, you can feel it, and you can see it's effect on things.

So we see that birth must preceed belief. Now you can find passages which seem, on the surface, to say th opposite, that you must believe to be born again. Acts 16 is one of the most popular "and they said to him believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved". So then how do we understand the Phillipian jailer in light of John 3? Well, we have to understand the individual elements of salvation, that includes election, regeneration, justification, sanctification, glorification, conversion, repentance, faith, redemption, reconciliation, forgiveness, atonement, and many other facets that I can't immediately recall. But regardless of the entanglements of all those doctrines, always keep it simple and remember - BIRTH is FIRST in TIME (but not sequence, election, foreknowledge, and predestination obviously preceeds birth in time, having taken place in eternity).

So, who can believe? Those that are born of God, who are born by the Spirit. To say otherwise is to say that they believe because they believe, or, they don't believe because they don't believe, which fails to recognize the origin of belief.

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Paul was there. Why did he not say: (You can't do anything, God must do every bit of it, if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, it is because you are saved.)?

Yes, I can show you verses that show that God causes blindness. Here's one: John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. And some others have been supplied in other posts.

What blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, was the message from God. God did not blind their eyes and harden their hearts to the message, He blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts by the message. It is still their own unbelief and rebellion that causes them to be guilty. They are responsible for their rejection of Christ, not God.

 

[webdog]

Good answer. I think there may be a third definition for "of God":

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Could it be, believing God, is another form of being "of God"?

Blammo, this is the ONLY "of God". The others fall under this. Belief (faith) is what makes one "of God".

 

[Blammo]

Blammo, this is the ONLY "of God". The others fall under this. Belief (faith) is what makes one "of God".

Yes, I agree. The other two "of God"s logically follow.

Unless, as the calvinists believe, the order is: Elect of God, Born of God, Believer of God.

Calvinist version of John 3:16?

(For God so loved the (elect), that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever hath everlasting life, should not perish, but believeth in him.)