TULIP for Real Life

[Yeshua1]

Which is exactly what I said in a previous post. He was made good.

Now, a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, and Adam was made good. But he wasn't made incorruptible. Before Adam could perform a sinful act, corruption had to have crept in.



So, in direct contradiction to the words of Christ, you will assert that a good tree can bring forth evil fruit.

That's not what I said.

A sinful act stems from a sinful heart. Always. Before there is an act, there is a will. As you cited above:

"Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife..." ​

In other words, because you thought about disobeying Me.

Anyway, you won't be convinced, and interactions with you are turning out to be defined by the constant need to correct your hearing.

His created nature when made was not same as jesus is, as our Lord's Humnanity was incapable of sinning, but ASdam had that potential/capability built into Him, so went into effect when he freely chose to disobey God.

 

[TCassidy]

That is what i thought Calvinist believed. So you would believe that God gave Adam a new heart and that is why Adam was able to believe it was God speaking to him?

No.

 

[steaver]

Now, a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, and Adam was made good. But he wasn't made incorruptible. Before Adam could perform a sinful act, corruption had to have crept in.

I have been debating on these boards for twenty years and it never gets old, I hear something new most every day. You are the first Calvinist I have heard put forth this theory. Most struggle with the fact that Adam had freewill to choose, you have come up with this theory as a way to resolve the issue in your own mind, IMHO.

 

[Aaron]

His created nature when made was not same as jesus is, as our Lord's Humnanity was incapable of sinning, but ASdam had that potential/capability built into Him, so went into effect when he freely chose to disobey God.

Not at all. Being made vulnerable to corruption is not the same as having a sin nature built in waiting to be triggered. Adam was good.

 

[Aaron]

His created nature when made was not same as jesus is, as our Lord's Humnanity was incapable of sinning, but ASdam had that potential/capability built into Him, so went into effect when he freely chose to disobey God.

Again, Adam was good. He did not have a sin mechanism waiting to be triggered. He was merely vulnerable to corruption. I might add that all that God created is vulnerable to corruption. Christ was not made, He is the only begotten of the Father. (This doesn't mean He has a beginning.)

Though Christians are called a "New Creation," we are more. We are born. 1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

And that which is born of God is invulnerable to corruption.​

 

[Aaron]

I have been debating on these boards for twenty years and it never gets old, I hear something new most every day. You are the first Calvinist I have heard put forth this theory. Most struggle with the fact that Adam had freewill to choose, you have come up with this theory as a way to resolve the issue in your own mind, IMHO.

Just taking Jesus at His word.

 

[loDebar]

Just taking Jesus at His word.

you have the problem exactly right

Rom 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Jhn 10:9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Rev 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hearmy voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

[loDebar]

Jhn 12:47

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

 

[Yeshua1]

Again, Adam was good. He did not have a sin mechanism waiting to be triggered. He was merely vulnerable to corruption. I might add that all that God created is vulnerable to corruption. Christ was not made, He is the only begotten of the Father. (This doesn't mean He has a beginning.)

Though Christians are called a "New Creation," we are more. We are born. 1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

And that which is born of God is invulnerable to corruption.​

Jesus Humanity was sinless One, unlike even Adam had when was created, as Adam could and did choose to sin, while Jesus could not do that!

 

[Yeshua1]

I have been debating on these boards for twenty years and it never gets old, I hear something new most every day. You are the first Calvinist I have heard put forth this theory. Most struggle with the fact that Adam had freewill to choose, you have come up with this theory as a way to resolve the issue in your own mind, IMHO.

Adam and Jesus has sinless human natures, but Adam's could choose to freely sin, while jesus could not!

 

[loDebar]

Jesus was tempted

Heb 4:14¶
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Adam was not God, He was condemned already or God is not fair.

Jhn 3:18
¶
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[atpollard]

Jesus was tempted

Adam was not God, He was condemned already or God is not fair.

Of course God is not fair! Nothing in life is fair. “Fair” means treating all men the same, so a “fair” God would send all men to Hell because all men have sinned. It is to our great fortune that God is not fair. God does not treat all men the same. Some men God foreknew and predestined and called and justified and glorified ... all because of God’s mercy and grace and contrary to any “fairness” and Justice that we deserved.

 

[InTheLight]

Of course God is not fair! Nothing in life is fair. “Fair” means treating all men the same, so a “fair” God would send all men to Hell because all men have sinned. It is to our great fortune that God is not fair. God does not treat all men the same. Some men God foreknew and predestined and called and justified and glorified ... all because of God’s mercy and grace and contrary to any “fairness” and Justice that we deserved.

Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
Acts 10:34‭-‬35

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
Romans 1:16



Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[atpollard]

Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
Acts 10:34‭-‬35

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
Romans 1:16

There is a HUGE difference between “no partiality” (salvation of some from every nation and not just the chosen children of Israel) and “complete fairness” (universal salvation or universal damnation of every individual).

 

[InTheLight]

There is a HUGE difference between “no partiality” (salvation of some from every nation and not just the chosen children of Israel) and “complete fairness” (universal salvation or universal damnation of every individual).

Yes! Got a new definition for The Calvinist Dictionary.

Fairness: Universal Salvation (or Universal Damnation)

You're doing great! Keep 'em coming!

(Also noticed you ignored Romans 1:16's promise of the Gospel being powerful enough to save anyone who believes.)

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[loDebar]

The elect are special to God, chosen for eternal life. Others are not. I can see why one chooses to believe Calvinism.
massages ego

 

[Rockson]

Of course God is not fair!

Well if God isn't fair he can't be just! And I don't have to try to defend that! Your own conscience does! If anyone told you of a judge who wasn't fair you'd automatically claim he could not be just. The problem is you bring it over here in a God/religious discussion and all sanity goes out the window.

Nothing in life is fair. “Fair” means treating all men the same, so a “fair” God would send all men to Hell because all men have sinned.

But men sin because they were born with a sin nature so ultimately they couldn't do anything but but fall short of the glory of God. So you believe it's fair to punish men who at no fault of their own were born with a deficiency. The pillar of judgement itself is rendered as due to fault as belonging to the guilty. There is NO FAULT belonging to a sinner for being born a certain way. Fault exists if there's something they could do about it along the way and they reject the solution.

It is to our great fortune that God is not fair. God does not treat all men the same. Some men God foreknew and predestined and called and justified and glorified ... all because of God’s mercy and grace and contrary to any “fairness” and Justice that we deserved.

It's stunning how you dismiss and set aside the very concept of fairness! So you say thank God he's not fair that means we all would not make heaven our home. But why do you qualify to be heaven bound? You claim it's all due to God's mercy and grace! Mercy? Well why would you need mercy? And why grace? Because you're a no good sinner born that way under sin the same as EVERY else on the planet! Tell me how anyone else on the planet is different then you? So seeing there IS NO DIFFERENCE we're left with concluding God's mercy and grace must be so very limited like fuel in a gas tank just a small amount to pass around. I'd contend God's love, grace and mercy is infinite with no limitation to those who make it possible for him to release it.

 

[atpollard]

Yes! Got a new definition for The Calvinist Dictionary.

Fairness: Universal Salvation (or Universal Damnation)

You're doing great! Keep 'em coming!

Fair: marked by impartiality and honesty : free from self-interest, prejudice, or favoritism. (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

English, it’s not just for Calvinists any more.

 

[atpollard]

Fair: marked by impartiality and honesty : free from self-interest, prejudice, or favoritism. (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

Just: being what is merited : deserved. (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

“Fair” and “Just” do not mean the same thing. God is Just, but God is not Fair (He is merciful).

 

[loDebar]

Fair: marked by impartiality and honesty : free from self-interest, prejudice, or favoritism. (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

Just: being what is merited : deserved. (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

“Fair” and “Just” do not mean the same thing. God is Just, but God is not Fair (He is merciful).

just
synonyms: fair, fair-minded, equitable, even-handed, impartial, unbiased, objective, neutral, disinterested, unprejudiced, open-minded, nonpartisan; More