It isn't. He defended his view by claiming that God is sovereign so whatever occurs ultimately works for God's glory and is in God's control.That last point sounds an awful lot like molinism.
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It isn't. He defended his view by claiming that God is sovereign so whatever occurs ultimately works for God's glory and is in God's control.That last point sounds an awful lot like molinism.
Bible states to us that God has chosen His own from before the foundation of the earth, from eternity past, based upon the will of God, correct?I hold that all men resist God by nature as their minds are set on the flesh.
I do not hold an opinion about how God elects. I think it is better to take Scripture for what is stated in Scripture.
I think that I cannot understand the mind of God apart from what He has revealed in His Word, so I have learned to leave the theories and philosophies alone. It's difficult because I like philosophy, but having been cautioned against such in Scripture I have to check myself.
No, those against it have at times lumped Hypers and Calvinists as same, as I noticed that you seem to be against Hyper Calvinism mainly
No. The Bible states that God chose us in Christ before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. The passage is Ephesians 1. The passage is speaking of the body of Christ.Bible states to us that God has chosen His own from before the foundation of the earth, from eternity past, based upon the will of God, correct?
That sounds like a "YOU" problem.As I see it Compatibilism is just hard determinism with a slight modification for the sake of appearances.
That plus "foreknew" before "predestined" before "justified" (and Justified happened before I was born when Christ died and rose).No. The Bible states that God chose us in Christ before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
You can't simply assume the "we" and "us" is not corporate. That is the issue. The passage can be interpreted to apply individually, but the context us the body of Christ (the context of the chapter). So it does not "prove" individual election. People take the passage in accordance to their presuppositions (both sides).That plus "foreknew" before "predestined" before "justified" (and Justified happened before I was born when Christ died and rose).
That sounds like a "YOU" problem.
We can explain it TO YOU, but we cannot understand it FOR YOU.
How about Genesis 50:20? Compatibalism or Hard Determinism?
The story of Job? Compatibalism or Hard Determinism?
The fall of Adam? Compatibalism or Hard Determinism?
You do understand that the Body of Christ is composed of very important and distinct members ? 1 Cor 12:12,14,18No. The Bible states that God chose us in Christ before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. The passage is Ephesians 1. The passage is speaking of the body of Christ.
Calviniists extract portions to "prove" individual election. Non-Calvinists look to verses 11-23 to indicate corporate election.
- an association of individuals, created by law or under authority of law, having a continuous existence independent of the existences of its members, and powers and liabilities distinct from those of its members.
- any group of persons united or regarded as united in one body.
It is corporate, but it cant be denied that the corporate is composed of individual members. Right her Eph 1:4You can't simply assume the "we" and "us" is not corporate. That is the issue. The passage can be interpreted to apply individually, but the context us the body of Christ (the context of the chapter). So it does not "prove" individual election. People take the passage in accordance to their presuppositions (both sides).
I agree. The corporate is composed of individuals.It is corporate, but it cant be denied that the corporate is composed of individual members. Right her Eph 1:4
Yes.You do understand that the Body of Christ is composed of very important and distinct members ? 1 Cor 12:12,14,18
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
For the body is not one member, but many.
But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
Davids 139 Psalms Pictures/Types the members of Christs Body all being written in the book Ps 139:16
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
So please dont exclude the Members of that Body of Christ, to the Head. Christs Body isn't a corporation of non entities, but carefully selected members
Corporation
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I agree. The corporate is composed of individuals.
The issue, however, is where they were chosen to be in Christ (the Elect of God) or were chosen in Christ (the Elect of God).
Individual election is "Father centered" (the Father elects individuals) while corporate election is Christ centered (Christ is the Elect, those in Him Elect based on Christ's election).
I believe you are in denial on that point, or you honestly just dont have understanding of what you read thereYes.
I have not argued for either position. I just observed the passage itself is not proof of Calvinistic election.
I didn’t even know you knew Hank DeWeerd (the teacher that taught me that what I believed was called ‘Calvinism’).Well since your own Calvinist teacher says they are the same what do you think?
Moody in Chi town ? Arminian school you know ? But he could still learn from there. I graduated from a arminain bible college, but God preserved me through it.I didn’t even know you knew Hank DeWeerd (the teacher that taught me that what I believed was called ‘Calvinism’).
However, I am pretty sure that Hank considers “Compatibalism” and “Hard Determinism” as two different things. (Moody Graduates are usually pretty good at understanding definitions of theological terms).
No. The verse is not "about" individual election. We agree that the corporate is made up of individuals but it is an error to assume individual election is implied exceot that Christ is "God's elect".@JonC
Okay, so Eph 1:4 is also about Individual Election, all of them were together chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. That includes OT Saints and NT Saints.
They were Chosen IN Christ, in Union with Him. When was Christ Chosen ? At that time they were chosen in union with Him.
Like Eve and Adam, when God Created Adam, though at first she had not been manifested, when He created him as Per Gen 5:1-2
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Well Eve was in Adam here Gen 1:27
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Now eve was in Adam, not to be in Adam,
And so it is with them Chosen in Christ, they are in Him b4 they are manifested in time, just as eve was in Adam b4 manifested.
To be technical the elect were in Christ b4 they were in Adam. Do you believe men had a union with Adam in the beginning ? Or were they to be in Adam ?
That sounds like something you have made up in your mind, The Father chose the individuals that comprised the corporate body, it says that in Eph 1:3-4
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
The Father personally chose His Sons Bride, Eve
No, I am not in denial. I simply am not reading into the passage.I believe you are in denial on that point, or you honestly just dont have understanding of what you read there
No. The verse is not "about" individual election. We agree that the corporate is made up of individuals