Two Salvations?

[Lacy Evans]

The Hebrew word the KJV translates as "righteousness" (avel) means simply wickedness / injustice. The ESV is more accurate in it's rendering of the passges you cite:

If all else fails . . .

lacy


No doctrine is affected! No doctrine is affected! BRAWWWWWWK! (sorry, wrong forum)

 

[Diggin in da Word]

no assumption on my part. God's Word tells us we are joint heirs with Christ. It promises we shall rule and reign with Him.

Is God's Word a lie? Should we make it thus? God's Word tells me I am clothed in Christ's righteousness.

I am judged not on my own righteousness, but on Christ's. Are you saying His righteousness is not sufficent?

It is quite clear the assumption is being done by you rather than me.

 

[webdog]

If all else fails . . .

lacy


No doctrine is affected! No doctrine is affected! BRAWWWWWWK! (sorry, wrong forum)

If all else fails...use proper context. Try it! It works! :thumbsup:

 

[James_Newman]

It promises we shall reign with him if we suffer. His righteousness is sufficient to give you grace to suffer, as well as save you in eternity.

 

[webdog]

It promises we shall reign with him if we suffer. His righteousness is sufficient to give you grace to suffer, as well as save you in eternity.

Explain "suffer"...

 

[Diggin in da Word]

It promises we shall reign with him if we suffer. His righteousness is sufficient to give you grace to suffer, as well as save you in eternity.

Do you suffer? You should. If you don't, you may not be part of the Lord's body...

2 Timothy 3:12 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

 

[webdog]

The millennial kingdom is Christs reign on earth over natural nations, and those who reign with him will reign on the earth. 'Heaven' if you want to refer to eternity that way doesn't start until after the thousand years.

Scriptural support please.

 

[James_Newman]

Explain "suffer"...

1 Peter 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

1 Peter 4:12-14
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the Spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

1 Peter 2:19-22
19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

Suffering is not sinning, and doing what is right in God's eyes, in spite of the consequences.

 

[James_Newman]

Do you suffer? You should. If you don't, you may not be part of the Lord's body...

So much for the grace of God, huh.

 

[James_Newman]

Scriptural support please.

Revelation 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 20:5
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

[webdog]

Suffering is persecution, then. OK, your claim is those who suffer will reign with Christ. You have just exluded every aborted and murdered child, along with every mentally challenged person from the MK. Let's talk about grace!

 

[James_Newman]

Suffering is persecution, then. OK, your claim is those who suffer will reign with Christ. You have just exluded every aborted and murdered child, along with every mentally challenged person from the MK. Let's talk about grace!

I don't know what this has to do with the topic. What does the bible say happens to aborted babies? I know from scripture that those who suffer are allowed to reign with Christ. I suspect that those innocent unborn children may make up a portion of the natural population during the kingdom, but the bible doesn't really say.

 

[Lacy Evans]

Webdog why don't you enlighten us as to what it means to suffer. after all it is the condition of being a joint-heir.

Lacy

 

[Lacy Evans]

If all else fails...use proper context. Try it! It works! :thumbsup:

If all else fails find a version that adheres to your narrow definitions of English words. Make the Scripture bend to your pre-concieved doctrines.

Bottom line, Lot was positionally righteous yet practically selfish.

Lacy

 

[Lacy Evans]

Do you suffer? You should. If you don't, you may not be part of the Lord's body...

And you say that we mix faith with works? Oh my!! So I have to have to suffer to be saved? I thought I was saved because I put my faith in Christ's substution for me.

Lacy

 

[webdog]

If all else fails find a version that adheres to your narrow definitions of English words. Make the Scripture bend to your pre-concieved doctrines.

Bottom line, Lot was positionally righteous yet practically selfish.

Lacy

...or try researching the root words you use in your english version to support your claim.

 

[webdog]

Webdog why don't you enlighten us as to what it means to suffer. after all it is the condition of being a joint-heir.

Lacy

All Christians suffer persecution and tribulation, some to a greater extent than others.

 

[Lacy Evans]

Is God's Word a lie? Should we make it thus? God's Word tells me I am clothed in Christ's righteousness.

I am judged not on my own righteousness, but on Christ's. Are you saying His righteousness is not sufficent?

I am chastened not for Christ's disobedience, but on my own. Are you saying that I am chastened for Christ's disobedience?

Why does he chasten at all if there is no possibility of practical disobedience?

lacy

 

[James_Newman]

All Christians suffer persecution and tribulation, some to a greater extent than others.

Kinda like Peter suffered when he denied Christ three times?

2 Timothy 2:12
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

A lukewarm Christian is perfectly capable of denying the Lord to escape suffering.

 

[James_Newman]

additionaly, it's not about how much we suffer, it's about suffering faithfully to the end.