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Unbelief....or All Sin?
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
Now you are simply stating opinion.
Christ said:
He that believeth not is damned.
The words of Christ is what matters, not your opinion.
Again, if it all boils down to is knowledge, ergo, rejecting Christ, the worst thing one could do is tell them about Christ. We was in this rodeo once before. Paul purposed to go to Spain. Why? To work where no one else had preached Christ, because he was not desirious to build upon another's work. Jesus was crucified somewhere in the 29-35 AD range. Paul wrote Romans around 56-58 AD. Now, if Paul purposed to go to Spain to preach the gospel to them, they had not heard the gospel, neither had knowledge of Christ's existence. In the ~ 25 years from Christ's ascension to Paul's writing Romans(he still had not made it to Spain in 56-58 AD), many died never hearing the gospel, therefore dying in their sins. So these Spainairds went to hell never knowing of Christ's existence. They had not heard the gospel, but they still had the Law in their hearts, knowing it was wrong to lie, kill, steal, commit adultery with their neighbor's spouse, &c. They sin in breaking God's commands and will be judged accordingly.
It has always been my ambition to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so that I would not be building on someone else’s foundation.[Rom. 15:20]
Let us use some logic here. Paul was ambitious to proclaim Christ where He was not known. Then he writes this a few verses later...
But now that there is no more place for me to work in these regions, and since I have been longing for many years to visit you, I plan to do so when I go to Spain. I hope to see you while passing through and to have you assist me on my journey there, after I have enjoyed your company for a while.[vss. 23,24]
So, by Paul's own words, he had no place to work(preach the gospel), he would go to Spain to declare Christ to them.
Let us use some logic here. Paul was ambitious to proclaim Christ where He was not known. Then he writes this a few verses later...
But now that there is no more place for me to work in these regions, and since I have been longing for many years to visit you, I plan to do so when I go to Spain. I hope to see you while passing through and to have you assist me on my journey there, after I have enjoyed your company for a while.[vss. 23,24]
So, by Paul's own words, he had no place to work(preach the gospel), he would go to Spain to declare Christ to them.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.[Jn. 3:17,18]
If God had not sent Christ, that would not have changed the sinners' state. They would still be dead in their sins, justly condemned, to receive the lake of fire as their just reward.
God did not need to send Christ to condemn the world. That was already an reality when Adam's sin covered the whole world. God sent Christ to die a propitious death, that covered the sheep's sins. They stand righteous because Christ's righteousness was imputed(accounted) unto them. They stand as odedient Lawkeepers because Christ's obedience was imputed/accounted unto them. The goats remain in their condemned state, and justly deserve their reward.
If God had not sent Christ, that would not have changed the sinners' state. They would still be dead in their sins, justly condemned, to receive the lake of fire as their just reward.
God did not need to send Christ to condemn the world. That was already an reality when Adam's sin covered the whole world. God sent Christ to die a propitious death, that covered the sheep's sins. They stand righteous because Christ's righteousness was imputed(accounted) unto them. They stand as odedient Lawkeepers because Christ's obedience was imputed/accounted unto them. The goats remain in their condemned state, and justly deserve their reward.
The problem you are having is you look at one verse and try to make it speak for the whole bible.
The rest of us read the whole bible.
what I stated was biblical fact which you do not seem to recognize.
I will help you now that I have access to a keyboard.
I had to use voice to text before....but now we will see some of what you do not know or comprehend...I said....
1] He that dies without a mediator is damned....
There is only one mediator between God and man...
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
No one gets into heaven without the One mediator....
look again;
in Heb9;
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Notice....he is the mediator of the NT.....FOR.....YOU GUESSED IT....
for the redemption of the transgressions
sins ...transgressions=sins.....notice the plural.
No mediator....no heaven....remain dead in your sins...plural....not just unbelief although once again....that was most likely one of the "sins"
he that dies in his sins plural is damned
he that dies apart from the blood of Christ covering his sin is Damned
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Notice...the SINS of many......sins plural......not just unbelief.....but sins plural...
Looks like the biblical writers shared my POV......even before I posted, imagine that DHK.. they do not agree with you eitherCautiousCautiousCautious.
"DHK,
yes...and look what Peter said;
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit
plural again....
.
yes...and look what Peter said;
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit
plural again....
.
What do you mean?
DHK.
in gen15;
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
God paid attention to each and every sin of the AmoritesThumbsupThumbsupThumbsup
in gen15;
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
God paid attention to each and every sin of the AmoritesThumbsupThumbsupThumbsup
"DHK,
You want the words of Christ;
mt7;
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me,
ye that work iniquity.
As these religious people were cast away....they were told they were workers of iniquity......Jesus never KNEW them....their religious works were called iniquity.........The words of Jesus
You want the words of Christ;
mt7;
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me,
ye that work iniquity.
As these religious people were cast away....they were told they were workers of iniquity......Jesus never KNEW them....their religious works were called iniquity.........The words of Jesus
You do not understand all that propitiation entails Monsieur. God was the one propitiated, not sinners. God was offended we the offenders. Christ's propitious works of the cross appeased God's wrath, satisfied His justice. That is why He could not be Just and forgive the wicked w/o Christ's propitious works of the cross.
Now that God's wrath has been appeased, His justice satisfied, He can now be Just and the Justifier of the wicked. If Christ propitiated everyone w/o exception, you have universalism. God's wrath has been appeased, God's justice satisfied, so no one ends up in hell.
he must be a "carnal Christian" that some speak so much about
Hey, at least he agreed with DHK's theology and not ours! Whew!!
As the document states: "These truths are self-evident." But they are to be taken in context.
Only a saved person has a mediator.
Only a saved person has his sins covered by the blood of Christ.
Thus the truth remains: "He that believeth not is damned."
The answer to your dilemma lies here.
In 2Timothy 4, Paul explains that there was two imprisonments. Concerning his first trial he states:
"No one stood with me."
After that time he was set free for a period of time, perhaps about two years. Most scholars say that it was during this time that he reached Spain, his long desired goal. Apparently he did go there.
Then, some time after he was re-captured, and as he explains to Timothy "the time of his departure was nigh." He was soon going to die.
Thus the statement was true. "Now that there is no more place for me to work in these regions." He had traveled all over Asia Minor. He did go to Europe, or Euro-Asia as it was probably known at that time.
Again you are just parroting Calvin's line.
Christ died for the sins of the world, as that passage clearly teaches.
Those who believe him are not condemned. Nothing is said about sheep.
Those who do not believe in him are condemned. Nothing is said about goats.
It is interesting to note that in all the Bible the only contrast between sheep and goats is in the judgment of the nations, a judgment of gentiles that takes place between the Tribulation and the Millennial Kingdom well after the saints have been raptured.
It also may be noted that "sheep" are referred to as the "unsaved" in Isa.53:6, a verse often used to refer to the depravity of man.
Also in that very same verse: "The Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us ALL."
He that believeth is not condemned.
He that believeth not is condemned already.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
--We are kept out of heaven because of our unbelief in Christ, not because of other misdeeds.
How have I changed?
This is OT. God punished them in that time. It was not in eternity.
These are false teachers.
This is speaking of the Great White Throne Judgement.
It is apples and oranges. Notice the words more carefully in verse 23:
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me,
They were to depart from him for all eternity, not because of their works, but because he never knew them.
They had never put their trust in Christ.