37818
Well-Known Member
τεταγμενοι
The grammar: V-RPP-NPM
Part of speech: Verb (V)
Tense: peRfect (R)
Voice: Passive (P)
Mood: Participle (P)
Case: Nominative (N)
Number: Plural (P)
Gender: Masculine (M)
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Understanding Acts 13:48
- Thread starter Van
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The grammar: V-RPP-NPM
Part of speech: Verb (V)
Tense: peRfect (R)
Voice: Passive (P)
Mood: Participle (P)
Case: Nominative (N)
Number: Plural (P)
Gender: Masculine (M)
"
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Why would you offer a translation “appointing themselves to eternal life” when you know the word is past tense “appointed”?
peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
It s “past perfect” in the passive? Correct? Doesn’t that mean the the anointing occurred in the past, continues into the present and future and they had nothing to do with it?
Doesn’t that make the OP translation of an agreement by mutual consent to be an error?
peace to you
37818
Well-Known Member
That is not merely a single issue. But a set of issues. What the New Testament actually taught and meant for starters.
Ac 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Will you make the same argument for this statement? I suggest you will probably spin it into your same system.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, [saying], I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.
Verse 48 is dependent on v 47. While verse 47 says there is now light of salvation for the gentiles (Paul was uniquely the apostle to bring salvation by faith in Christ to gentiles) , not all will come to the light and be saved. Those gentiles were ordained to eternal life because they believed.
Do you realize you are teaching another way of salvation than by faith? It is wrong what you are doing.
Pastor John Piper in "Take a Look at the Book" breaks down Acts 13:46-48.
Acts 13:46-48 What does it mean to be appointed?
This is a 10 minute teaching on the verse, breaking down the verses. Piper's academic credentials are impeccable. I'll take his understanding over Van's.
Acts 13:46-48 What does it mean to be appointed?
This is a 10 minute teaching on the verse, breaking down the verses. Piper's academic credentials are impeccable. I'll take his understanding over Van's.
37818
Well-Known Member
"The Perfect Tense is a tense of verbs in Koine Greek. It is usually used to show that a past event has occurred with present ongoing consequences."
Not the appointing but it's consequences.
37818
Well-Known Member
"The Perfect Tense is a tense of verbs in Koine Greek. It is usually used to show that a past event has occurred with present ongoing consequences."
Not the appointing but it's consequences.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I teach what scripture teaches. Salvation is a work of God from start to finish. Salvation (a right relationship with God) is by God’s grace, through faith.
I don’t think you understand what I believe.
peace to you
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Well, if that isn't a bubble...
Acts 13:48 is indeed a strong verse on God's sovereign choice of those who would be saved. The verb TETAGMENOI does not occur in Acts 20:13, but the aorist form of it does occur in Acts 29:23. There, the middle voice is indeed used and is translated like an active verb. However, the aorist has a distinct middle form that is different from the passive form. The perfect tense, found in Acts 13:48, does not. Context, lexeme, and usage are key. In 1 Cor 16:15, an active voice verb is used. So, neither of these texts offers a real parallel to Acts 13:48. The problem with taking the verb in Acts 13:48 as a middle is that it would have to be a direct middle (the idea would be 'they appointed themselves'), which is nonsense in this context and is extremely rare of a usage overall. I know of no linguistic ground for overturning the traditional translation here.
Daniel B. Wallace has taught Greek and New Testament courses on a graduate school level since 1979. He has a Ph.D. from Dallas Theological Seminary, and is currently professor of New Testament Studies at his alma mater.
How does the Greek verb in Acts 13:48 either support or refute predestination? | Bible.org
Daniel B. Wallace has taught Greek and New Testament courses on a graduate school level since 1979. He has a Ph.D. from Dallas Theological Seminary, and is currently professor of New Testament Studies at his alma mater.
How does the Greek verb in Acts 13:48 either support or refute predestination? | Bible.org
37818
Well-Known Member
"Appointed" by who? The receipts being the "as many as" or by the giver in the context?
37818
Well-Known Member
A literal translation is being debated,
". . . For* so the Lord has commanded to us, saying, ‘I have placed you* for a light of the Gentiles, for you to be* for salvation to the outermost parts of the earth.’ And while the Gentiles are hearing this, they were rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and they believed as many as were appointing themselves toward everlasting life. . . .
Sure, but to be clear, I believe you are addressing the meaning of "tasso" as meaning in all its NT usages "arrangement by mutual consent."
Here is a link addressing usage in Acts 13:48:
Does Acts 13:48 teach Unconditional Election?
Another link provides this snippet:
There are a number of approaches to understanding the intention of this passage within this historical context. Dr. Brian Abasciano, a notable Greek and New Testament scholar, writes,
“The best understanding of ‘tasso’ [appointed] in Acts 13:48 is that it refers to Gentiles who were ‘in position for eternal life’ — ‘ready for eternal life’ — or even ‘intent on obtaining eternal life’ (particularly in contrast to the Jews of the same episode who opposed Paul and rejected the gospel, and so who judged themselves unworthy of eternal life [Acts 13:46]), and that the most accurate translation of the phrase in question would be something like: ‘as many as were disposed to eternal life believed’ or ‘as many as were aligned for eternal life believed’ or ‘as many as were positioned for eternal life believed.‘”
And here is a link to Dr. Abasciano's addressing this issue:
Brian Abasciano, James White’s Faulty Treatment of the Greek and Context of Acts 13:48
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37818
Well-Known Member
Yes, whether it was the "as many as" or the giver were the actor or actors of the action.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
So I followed the link, which I very rarely do. A few points to consider.
First, No where do I see Meyers claim the meaning of Acts 13:48 is an agreement by mutual consent. So, the one person you have offered to support your translation does not support your translation.
Second, Meyers states the the purpose of his ministry is free people that have been enslaved by religion.
Third, he states the reason Jesus came to the earth was to redeem mankind AND redeem God from religion.
Clearly, this man has an agenda to attack traditional Christianity and replace it with what he views as appropriate.
He is not someone I would consider credible to offer guidance on the meaning of scripture.
peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
When you gave the definition of the word “appointed” in post#21 you identified it as Perfect/Passive/Participle didn’t you?
If you change the traditional meaning from passive to middle you need a compelling reason based on word usage, not in desired outcome.
AustinC quoted a respected Greek scholar, with decades of experience in posts #32. Dr. Wallace specifically addresses your translation based on the usage of Greek words, not ion desired outcomes.
Your rendering of “appointed themselves” is not supported by the way Greek words and phrases are used in the Biblical texts.
Again, to change the meaning, you need compelling evidence from Greek grammar usage.
peace to you
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