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Understanding Acts 13:48
- Thread starter Van
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37818
Well-Known Member
Not mine. But an existing alternative rendering. Now I know why.
Does Acts 13:48 teach Unconditional Election?
From link,
"The passive participle for tassō in Acts 13:48 could either be in the middle or passive voice, as both are spelled the same way in Greek. Most Calvinists understand the word to be in the passive voice, and translate it as such so it appears that people who believe in Acts 13:48 are totally passive in their reception of eternal life: They were ordained by God to believe, and so they did believe. End of story."
MLV, ". . . And while the Gentiles are hearing this, they were rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and they believed as many as were appointing themselves toward everlasting life. . . ."
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George Antonios
Well-Known Member
I have a QUESTION friends:
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Had those Gentiles already been regenerated when they were glad and glorified the word of God?
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Had those Gentiles already been regenerated when they were glad and glorified the word of God?
37818
Well-Known Member
More:
Greek "Middle Voice"
Greek "Middle Voice"
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Could be middle? Only if you ignore the long established unbiased scholarship that demonstrates a middle voice isn’t supported by Greek usage in the context of Acts 13:48. To claim “Calvinists” are the ones to use the passive is a smoke screen of nonsense. The truth of word usage doesn’t change if a Calvinist sees it.
The ones looking for an alternative meaning to this passages are the one letting their bias dictate the meaning of words/phrases rather than the established, unbiased recognition of word usage in Greek.
Bottom line, if you believe it should be middle voice, and the people appointed themselves to eternal life (clearly a worked based salvation view) then you must show a compelling reason to disregard the established understanding BASED ON Greek word usage, not based on a desired outcome of meaning.
So far, all I’ve seen is that you and Van don’t like what scripture says in Acts 13:48 and are changing the established meaning of words to get to a desired outcome which you believe undermines “Calvinism”.
You bias is dictating your beliefs.
peace to you
26 even the mystery which hath been hid for ages and generations: but now hath it been manifested to his saints,
27 to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Col 1
1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith Jehovah. Isa 54 [Galatians 4:27]
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10
37818
Well-Known Member
The grammatical form of τάσσω as used in Acts 13:48 τεταγμενοι is uniquely used in that verse. That it's passive voice is identical to it's middle voice is being claimed. The majority view is in that text it is to be understood in the passive voice.
So you're casting aside as irrelevant a Greek scholars opinion who has studied Greek for decades and taught it in seminary. Got it.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Hunh? I am sorry brother, I just ain't that spiritual to get it.
My question is: "do you view the Gentiles of Acts 13:48 has having been regenerated before they began to be glad and to glorify the word of God?"
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
ditto.
If by 'regenerated' you mean born of God/born from above/born of the Spirit, yes, absolutely.
7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.` Jn 3
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God Jn 1
1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is begotten of God: and whosoever loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 1 Jn 5
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37818
Well-Known Member
Koine greek: how to distinguish Middle & Passive voice
"In most tenses, though, the two are completely identical, and you have to rely on context to tell which is which."
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
AustinC, in post #32, has given the explanation of Dr. Wallace, who has spent decades studying Biblical Greek and directly addresses your question about passive or middle voice for “appointed” in Acts 13:48.
The man you and Van quoted. Meyers, has a masters degree from Dallas Theological Seminary with no indication he focused on Biblical languages at all. That probably means he took the required two semesters in Greek or Hebrew.
This man, Meyers, proudly states his ministry is to “redeem” (free) people from religion. He also stated that Jesus came to the earth to “redeem” (free) people and “free” God from religion.
He doesn’t have the expertise to make a distinction between middle or passive voice and doesn’t give a single reason why the middle should be used other than the passive except that “Calvinists” use the passive.
He obviously is more interested in pushing an agenda to “free” people from religion (whatever that means) than an understanding Biblical Greek.
peace to you
37818
Well-Known Member
Predestination is not in any way refuted by Acts 13:48 even if τεταγμενοι is interpretated being in the middle voice.
My observation is by no means a question.
Now here is a question, what in the context of Acts 13:48 requires τεταγμενοι not to be in the middle voice but to be in the passive voice?
MLV, " . . . And while the Gentiles are hearing this, they were rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and they believed as many as were appointing themselves toward everlasting life. . . ."
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I’ll let Dr. Wallace answer your question from AustinC’s post #32, which you apparently refuse to read.
This is a Biblical Greek scholar that has devoted decades of his life to understanding the way Biblical Greek words are used. He directly addresses the question of using the middle voice for “appointed” in Acts 13:48 and refers to it as “nonsense”.
I cannot add to his insight.
peace to you
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
...for the priestly class has spoken...
37818
Well-Known Member
How does the Greek verb in Acts 13:48 either support or refute predestination? | Bible.org
Predestination is not at issue! At issue is the Greek verb τεταγμενοι being in the middle voice.
"The problem with taking the verb in Acts 13:48 as a middle is that it would have to be a direct middle (the idea would be 'they appointed themselves'), which is nonsense in this context and is extremely rare of a usage overall. I know of no linguistic ground for overturning the traditional translation here." Is so there argued.
Romans 13:1 uses the very same word in the feminine. And it's context is explicitly passive voice. I dare say not so with Acts 13:48 with MLV translation in evidence and @Van what he has argued.
MLV, ". . . And while the Gentiles are hearing this, they were rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and they believed as many as were appointing themselves toward everlasting life. . . ."
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
We are talking past each other. No use to continue.
One thing is certain. No one has agreed with Van’s interpretation of an agreement by mutual consent.
Thanks for the conversation.
peace to you
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
I have, and so have many a scholar. A little research outside the bubble would yield much.
Does Acts 13:48 support Calvinism? What is Luke’s Intent?
Does Acts 13:48 teach Unconditional Election?
Benson: "So Dr. Doddridge, who adds, “This I take to be precisely its sense here, and have therefore chosen the word determined, as having an ambiguity something like that in the original. The meaning of the sacred penman seems to be, that all who were deeply and seriously concerned about their eternal happiness, (whether that concern began now, or were of longer date,) openly embraced the gospel: for surely none could be said to believe who did not make an open profession of Christianity.” In a similar sense, the clause is understood by Dr. Hammond, who renders it, As many as were disposed for eternal life believed: and by Dr. Heylin, whose translation and gloss upon it is, As many as were in a fit disposition for eternal life believed. Dr. Waterland also, and many of the most learned expositors, interpret it in the same manner, namely, as describing those who were, at this time, in a disposition to comply with the terms on which God, by his apostle, now offered them eternal life; that is, to repent, believe, and obey the gospel. In other words, “As many as were brought to a resolution of courageously facing all opposition in the way to it, believed, and openly embraced the Christian religion, as the best means to prepare them for an endless life of the greatest virtue and purity, as well as of the greatest glory and most perfect happiness. [...] Those who wish for further satisfaction on this verse, may find it in Hammond, Whitby, and Dodd, upon it: in Sellon’s Arguments against General Redemption considered. Works, vol. 2. p. 128: and in Fletcher’s Checks to Antinomianism. Works, Am. ed., vol. 2. pp. 77, 78.”
For Tasso, the Mounce Concise Greek-English Dictionary has: " to dispose, frame, for an object, Act_13:48"
Et al.
You see, we can all quote "scholars" on either side of any issue.
Who did I cast aside as a scholar? 37, Van or you???
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