Understanding God's sovereignty

[Dave...]

Yes Gods purpose is the author of sin, God isnt the doer of sin.

Bright, think about what is being said here. For God to be the author of sin, He would need to be the cause of it, just as He is the Author of good. We see the two contrasted here, with there respected causes. God is not just the Author of good, He is the Author of life (Acts 3:15). If He caused sin, He would be a house divided against itself.

James:1:13-17 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.

Gods purpose is the author of sin, God isnt the doer of sin.

Please see post #21

 

[Brightfame52]

Bright, think about what is being said here. For God to be the author of sin, He would need to be the cause of it, just as He is the Author of good. We see the two contrasted here, with there respected causes. God is not just the Author of good, He is the Author of life (Acts 3:15). If He caused sin, He would be a house divided against itself.

James:1:13-17 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.

Gods purpose is the author of sin, God isnt the doer of sin.

Please see post #21

I saw it, it has no relevance in my statement

Gods purpose is the author of sin, God isnt the doer of sin.

 

[JonC]

@JonC



it does, and your logic is flawed. Nothing and nobody exists without Gods purpose.

I agree that nothing and nobody exists without God's purpose. But that is not your argument.

I referenced a passage in James and you basically said "hogwash" because God created everything. Another passage even tells us how sin originates (and it is not with God).

Like I said, this is an either or issue. You or God is wrong. Now, if I was a betting man . . .

Gods purpose is the author of sin, God isnt the doer of sin.

God's purpose cannot author anything. God can.

But with sin Scripture tells us exactly how it is authored. It is authored by the human mind, by men allowing themselves to be carried away by their own lust. This is how sin is conceived, and from there it is acted upon (men do the sin).

There are several problems with your logic.

First, you make a nonsensical claim (that God's purpose authors sin, apparently using an abstract so as not to blaspheme and simply say that God is the first cause or author of sin).

Second, your logic is flawed because the presence of the elements (man. setting the mind on human desires, and temptations) does not sin make.

Third, you are making an assumption that God purposes for men to sin (the first major error of hyper-calvinism within orthodox Calvinism).

Fourth, you are trusting your philosophy to an extent you essentually deny Scripture.

 

[Brightfame52]

@JonC

I agree that nothing and nobody exists without God's purpose. But that is not your argument.

It is my argument. Gods purpose is the first and primary cause for everything that happens in His world, He created it for His Purpose in Christ Jesus.

@JonC

God's purpose cannot author anything. God can.

They are the same

 

[JonC]

@JonC



It is my argument. Gods purpose is the first and primary cause for everything that happens in His world, He created it for His Purpose in Christ Jesus.

But it is not a cause. God works everything fir the good. For example, God's purpose is not a cause (first or primary), for sin (per Scripture). God is not a cause at all for temptation (again, per Scripture).

The issue is you are ignoring the possibility that God could have created men with the ability of being the ultimate source of their own sin.

If God did not create man then man would not have sinned. BUT we are not talking about the first cause of man but of sin. The error in your logic is with the word "cause".

@JonC



They are the same

Not in the English language.

I may purpose to go to work. But my purpose does not author me going to work. Ones "purpose" cannot author anything. It is something we have, and it may determine our actions, but we are its source.

It is better, IMHO, to speak plainly and use words in such a way that follows the language in which we speak.

You mean God authors sin to achieve His purpose, not God's purpose authors sin, as the last is not a legitimate concept. And that is the hyoer-Calvinistic argument (neo-Calvinism as it was rejected when presented as the logical conclusion of Calvinism by James Arminius). Calvinism insists that God predestins everything but mot in a way that makes Him the author of sin.

I agree with you, however, that neo-Calvinism (hyper-Calvinism) a more logical than Calvinism itself. But it is even less biblical.

 

[Silverhair]

Yes Gods purpose is the author of sin, God isnt the doer of sin.

That is a distinction without a difference.

You have made God responsible for all the sin and evil in the world.

Your weird view goes against what the bible tells us about God.

 

[Brightfame52]

@JonC

But it is not a cause.

Sure it is. Thats a unlearned comment. Everything you saying sounds like mass confusion sir.

 

[Brightfame52]

That is a distinction without a difference.

You have made God responsible for all the sin and evil in the world.

Your weird view goes against what the bible tells us about God.

Gods purpose is the author of sin, God isnt the doer of sin.

 

[JonC]

@JonC



Sure it is. Thats a unlearned comment. Everything you saying sounds like mass confusion sir.

I do not doubt that what I posted sounds to you like confusion.
But no, you are wrong. God is not the cause of evil, sin, or temptation.

Those who made medications that some abuse are not the cause of the drug abuse.

What you need to prove is that God created man to sin (that man's purpose is ti disobey God).
If you can prove that then you nay jave a point. But as it stands you are guilty of denying Scripture that tells us the origin of sin, how sin comes about, and the origin of temptation to sin.

You simply do not grasp the sovereignty of God.

 

[Paleouss]

God is the first cause of sin because He is the first cause of Salvation from sin. Or do you suppose God got the idea of Salvation from sin outside of Himself ?

Greetings brother on this blessed Sunday.

Either I didn't make my point clear in my post or I don't understand your point.

Let me ask this... Is God responsible for mankind's sin? That is, is he blameworthy for it? If you say He is...well, I'm not sure that's properly considered Christian thought. If He is not, then why not?

Peace to you brother.

 

[Silverhair]

Gods purpose is the author of sin, God isnt the doer of sin.

Your reasoning is flawed BF and it sure is not biblical.