Understanding Revelation

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Antiaging:
"open the book with the 7 seals. These are the things that will happen on the last 7 years till the end of the age when Jesus returns."

How do you get "7 years" in there? I'm baffled! "7 years" - just cannot find those words in there! Am I blind, or stupid, or both?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Antiaging:
"There are two men spoken of in these passages. One is the Messiah and the other is the prince that shall come. Messiah is killed in 9:26, therefore the prince that shall come cannot be Messiah; it just got finished saying Messiah was killed.
The Romans destroyed the sanctuary in 70 AD. The prince that shall come must be of the people of the Romans. Messiah was never a Roman, not by birth or otherwise. So the prince that shall come cannot be Messiah."

GE
That is perfectly logical and perfectly right.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

But the date 70 AD is just as illogical as end-date of the 70-week prophetic unit. That the Roman armies 'came' and destroyed Rome is another matter. It marks not the cut-off point for the Jewish nation. The Day of Atonement in Acts 13 referred to decided that moment, to the day three and half years after Jesus was crucified and resurrected.

 

[Ed Edwards]

I do not find the word 'Atonement' in the book of Acts (KJV1769 family of editions).

 

[Ed Edwards]

Antiaging:
"open the book with the 7 seals. These are the things that will happen on the last 7 years till the end of the age when Jesus returns."

How do you get "7 years" in there? I'm baffled! "7 years" - just cannot find those words in there! Am I blind, or stupid, or both?

I'd say 'stupid' - but what do I know???

See post #9 in this topic.
The 7-years is mentioned in Daniel and the fact it is divided into 2 parts. one of the two parts is mentioned 3 times in Daniel and 4 times in Revelation. The times discussed are:

1260 days =
42 months of 30 days each =
time (1), times (2) and a dividing of time (½) = 3½-years

Ed from post #9 at:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=47895

So here is what I end up with for the two suggested each 3½-year-periods from Daniel 9:27.

1. - the 3½-years in which the antichrist rises to power
- the two witness will have POWER and will prophesy 3½-years
- the holy city (Jerusalem) is tread underfoot (while the temple /in Jerusalem/ is built)

2. - The people of God will be 'given into his hand's, the Antichrist.
- the 3½-years in which the antichrist rules in power
- The woman (Yisrael) flees into the wilderness 3½-years
- God protects the woman (Yisrael) in the wilderness 3½-years.

 

[antiaging]

In Rev 20 we have the fact that AFTER the 1000 years are completed the camp of the saints is on earth -- and in Rev 21 we SEE how that happens - the city filled with the saints descended from heaven.

In Both 20 and 21 the city is on the other AFTER the 1000 years not during and not before.

The dead in Christ "rise FIRST" as we are told in 1thess 4 and this happens at the "FIRST resurrection" as we see in Rev 20 which is the "event" that STARTs the 1000 year clock.

With all the wicked destroyed at the Rev 19 second coming event.

And with all the saints rapture to heaven as we see promised in 1Thess 4 at the "coming again" of Christ mentioned in John 14.

There is nothing but the "desolate earth" and "feast of the birds" as mentioned in the OT and in Rev 19 for this world during that 1000 years.

in Christ,

Bob

No. There is a big difference between what is on the Earth during the 1000, years and what is on the Earth after it.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Immediately after the 1000 years, before the Earth is changed, the camp of the saints that had been on the Earth 1000 years will be attacked. There is no mention of a new heaven and new earth between the 1000 years and the attack on the camp.

Before the New Jerusalem comes down, the whole Earth and Sky are changed.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

There is no attack mentioned on the New Jerusalem City, after it descends onto a new Earth.
Men don't attack the New Jerusalem city. They attack a camp of the saints before the Earth is changed and before the New Jerusalem city arrives.
So the Earth is dark, (but the city has light) and the new city has walls 1500 miles high. So how is anyone going to even see to try to attack it? What giant seige engines or even space rockets attack walls that high?

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[TCGreek]

At my church I'm teaching Revelation on Wednesday nights.

I do powerpoint presentations.

I'm using Grant R. Osborne Revelation in the Baker Commentary series as my primary text.

I'm using an outline from Dr. Dallace B. Wallace of DTS.

Until someone changes my mind, I see Rev 1:19, 20 as key to unraveling the Apocalypse.

 

[BobRyan]

See post #9 in this topic.
The 7-years is mentioned in Daniel and the fact it is divided into 2 parts. one of the two parts is mentioned 3 times in Daniel and 4 times in Revelation. The times discussed are:

1260 days =
42 months of 30 days each =
time (1), times (2) and a dividing of time (½) = 3½-years

1. Nothing at all in Daniel 9 is ever mentioned in Revelation - anywhere. The reason is pretty obvious - the 490 year timeline starting with the restoration in Ezra's day points to the work of "Messiah the Prince" in that 490 year timeline. He had come and gone by the time John writes the book of Revelation.

2. The 1260 prophetic days (YEARS - day for year) in Dan 7 is mentioned in Rev multiple times - that is the 1260 years of the dark ages as we see in Rev 12.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

No. There is a big difference between what is on the Earth during the 1000, years and what is on the Earth after it.

Agreed.

The bible texts at the two posts starting here describe the conditions of earth during the 1000 years where the land rests.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1196781#post1196781

(Posts 21 and 22 of THIS thread for those who are counting)

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Ed Edwards]

BobRyan: //2. The 1260 prophetic days (YEARS - day for year) in Dan 7 is mentioned in Rev multiple times - that is the 1260 years of the dark ages as we see in Rev 12.//

Unfortunately the 1260 DAYS of the Bible are fairly global -- The Dark Ages are specific to Europe

 

[BobRyan]

As Daniel 9 indicates - the saints are being persecuted after the fall of the Roman empire during the 1260 years - and before the 2nd coming.

As Rev 12 shows - the 1260 years of persecution and take place in Rev 12 after the time of Christ - and before the Rev 13 event of the rise of the United States to world power.

This 1260 year time of persecution of the saints just after the time of Christ - is not mentioned at all in Daniel 9.

And Daniel 9's 490 year timeline pointing to the work of Messiah the Prince in the 70's week (the last 7 years of that 490 year timeline) is not mentioned even once as a numeric timeline in Revelation.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Ed Edwards]

Repeating a claim does not PROVE it.

Maybe if you repeat it but with

Big letters?

1260 days = 3½-years

 

[BobRyan]

Ok "repeat it is" -

Just when someone claims that Daniel's 490 year timeline got stuck in Revelation or at least the last 7 years of it cut sliced off and tossed an as-yet-to-be-defined unknown number of years away so it could get into the book of Revelation --

We have ...

1. Nothing at all in Daniel 9 is ever mentioned in Revelation - anywhere. The reason is pretty obvious - the 490 year timeline starting with the restoration in Ezra's day points to the work of "Messiah the Prince" in that 490 year timeline. He had come and gone by the time John writes the book of Revelation.

2. The 1260 prophetic days (YEARS - day for year) in Dan 7 is mentioned in Rev multiple times - that is the 1260 years of the dark ages as we see in Rev 12.

 

[BobRyan]

The day-for-year principle applied in Dan 9 -- is applied in Dan 7 where we see the 1260 days mentioned -- just as they are metioned in Revelation.

And they are always the same thing - the 1260 years of the dark ages that follow the time of Christ and preceed the rise of the United States.

(As we saw in Rev 11, 12 and 13).

in Christ,

Bob

 

[TCGreek]

I was at a bookstore over the weekend and I bought Ed Hindson's Revelation. I like the layout of it.

Quite user-friendly! This will be a good one to check out.

 

[Ed Edwards]

I see 19 paper copies of John's REVELATION within arm's reach of the chair in front of my Computer screen. I'll be reading them mostly.

 

[TCGreek]

I see 19 paper copies of John's REVELATION within arm's reach of the chair in front of my Computer screen. I'll be reading them mostly.

I feel you, Ed, but not even you will minimize the use of other helps.

 

[Ed Edwards]

I was at a bookstore over the weekend and I bought Ed Hindson's Revelation. I like the layout of it.

Quite user-friendly! This will be a good one to check out.

Sounds, great! It is sure Smaller than a SDA (seventh day adventist) book REVELATION AND DANIEL (Southern Press, 1896) and with more current data.

 

[BobRyan]

Ahh - Uriah Smith -- what a great scholar for his day eh Ed?

The bottom line remains -- there is no way to insert a "7 year period" into Revelation from Dan 9.

The Dan 9 timeline of 490 years starts with the time of Captivity among the Medes and Persians for Israel - and ends with the coming of the Messiah (the first time) and the 7 years surrounding the Baptism (annointing) of the Christ by the Holy Spirit.


It is a great Messianic timeline of 490 years that can not be foisted onto Revelation.

Which gets to the OP - "How to Understand Revelation" -

Step 1. -- no "making stuff up" - such as a 7 year timeline in Revelation that is snipped off of one in Dan 9 and tossed to the end of time.


in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BR:
"The day-for-year principle applied in Dan 9 "

GE
In Dan 9 the week-years-'principle' of interpretation applies. It is co-incidence the '70 weeks' also 'work out' with a day-for-a-year-'reckoning'. Perhaps the fact is meaningful; perhaps not. Nevertheless the Prophecy stands confirmed in PAST, history as fulfilled in Christ and therefore, is trustworthy.