David Michael Harris
Active Member
I agree you cannot tar all with the same brush. Just most of them lol.
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Unelect Person Desiring Salvation
- Thread starter saturneptune
- Start date
I agree you cannot tar all with the same brush. Just most of them lol.
Think of it this way....If a person truly is desirous of salvation, then they are elected. Christ is able to save all who come to God through Him in faith.
I doubt whether any Arminian would appreciate being tarred.... remember they have to freely choose.
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Will the calvinism verses arminianism thing ever end lol I am going mediate, read this site... http://mediatetheology.org/ breath of fresh air.
Sure. No one comes to Christ unless the Father draws them. That drawing may manifest itself through seeking and desiring, or at least honest inquiry.
Greektim
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that the Father draws the "unelect"??? I guess we'd also have to know if "unelect" is the same as "non-elect". I would say yes. So again I ask, you are saying that it is consistent calvinism to say that someone will desire God b/c the Father is drawing someone who is unelect? Why draw them then?
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Maybe God draws some to a point but does not call them to glory for some reason privy to the Diety, how else do you explain in Hebrews those who tasted and experienced the power of the coming age, and yet fell away? Romans 11:33 again.
No. The Father draws only the elect, but while in their yet unregenerate state they may be seeking God. However their understanding is still limited until they are regenerate.
Greektim
Well-Known Member
So just to clarify... you said "sure" to the question if an unelect person could desire God. But then you later said "the Father draws only the elect." Thus I question that what you were saying was consistent w/ calvinistic beliefs. I think you confused the term "unelect" w/ unsaved. The OP was about someone not elect. See my point.
David Michael Harris
Active Member
The Father draws only the Elect? That's up for study surely.
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
(Heb 6:4-6)
Fishing here abit actually.
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SovereignMercy
Member
Those described here do not have faith however and that is the work of God in justification.
SovereignMercy
Member
It's impossible for someone who is spiritually dead to desire salvation.
David Michael Harris
Active Member
For it is foolishness to them? Not those drawn part way it seems, don't ignore Scripture to meet your own modern theology. Who said they believed and so were saved? Parable of the sower comes to mind.
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And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Nice use of Scripture. He who has ears to hear...
Bronconagurski
New Member
Interesting question to me because that supposedly happened to an old party friend of mine. We both got saved and neither could believe the other was saved. Anyway, my friend's wife, according to him, tried to get saved several times, but it did not take. Those were his words. He then told me he was divorcing her since she obviously was not one of the elect, and he should not have fellowship with unbelievers. I tried to convince him to stay with her, but did not know enough scripture at that time to say why he should. I don't know if he ever did divorce her as we went our separate ways and I have not seen or heard from him since.
SovereignMercy
Member
And who are the willing?
Your people shall be volunteers In the day of Your power; in the beauties of holiness, from the womb of the morning. You have the dew of Your youth.
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Faith is the work of God not men.
Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, "This is a hard saying; who can understand it?" When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, "Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father." From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
SovereignMercy
Member
So where do these "ears to hear" come from? You or the Holy Spirit?
Tom Butler
New Member
If you ask someone if he wants to go to heaven, most of the time he'll say yes. Few if any will say they look forward to going to Hell. So, in a sense, a lost person could be said as desiring salvation.
But that is not the same thing as being convicted of sin and drawn to repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus. It is not the same thing as turning to the Lord as our only hope, or coming to hate sin and his sinfulness.
To put it another way, they don't want to burn, but they're not willing to turn. That willingness is a work of the Holy Spirit.
But that is not the same thing as being convicted of sin and drawn to repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus. It is not the same thing as turning to the Lord as our only hope, or coming to hate sin and his sinfulness.
To put it another way, they don't want to burn, but they're not willing to turn. That willingness is a work of the Holy Spirit.
You know what Tim? You're right. I misread the OP. My bad. God only draws the elect. The non-elect cannot be drawn. Thanks for the correction.