One subject change after another, running from the fact God chooses individuals for salvation based on crediting their faith as righteousness.
This is the gospel truth their false doctrine denies.
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Universal Atonement With Limited Atonement
- Thread starter Paleouss
- Start date
This is the gospel truth their false doctrine denies.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
How are we saved? God chooses an individual for salvation by spiritually setting that person apart in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit, based on crediting the person's faith as righteousness. In Christ they undergo the washing of regeneration, they are made alive together with Christ, also called the circumcision of Christ where whatever God held against the individual is removed, and then the individual is indwelt with the Holy Spirit, our Helper who carries out the renewing of our mind.
Did we commit to Christ first, or did Christ die as a ransom for all first? Christ demonstrated His love for us while we were yet sinners. Were we saved then given faith, or did God credit our faith as righteousness, then save us? God credited our faith before He saved us.
Did we commit to Christ first, or did Christ die as a ransom for all first? Christ demonstrated His love for us while we were yet sinners. Were we saved then given faith, or did God credit our faith as righteousness, then save us? God credited our faith before He saved us.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Folks those who have been Chosen to Salvation have been also Chosen to believe the Gospel by which they are called to Eternal Glory 2 Thess 2:13-14
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
This is all about the elect,
The non elect and their plight were explained in the previous verses in contrast 2 Thess 2:10-12
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
These were not chosen to salvation nor to believe the Truth, but to believe lies !
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
This is all about the elect,
The non elect and their plight were explained in the previous verses in contrast 2 Thess 2:10-12
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
These were not chosen to salvation nor to believe the Truth, but to believe lies !
Greetings to you Aaron and grace and hope to you and yours. Thank you for your insights and wisdom on this matter.
Now, I'm not discounting at this point that it is not a "representation" or "shadow" of what Christ did for the elect. Just pointing out and being strict with biblical accuracy that The Day of Atonement (Lev 16:21-22, Heb 9:7), also known as Yom Kippur gives no mention of "the elect" and no mention of only being for 'some Jews'.
The biblical text explicitly says... "confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins"... (upon the sacrificial goat). It was for the "peoples sins committed in ignorance" (Heb 9:7).
It would seem that if one was going to bring an argument that this sacrifice was only of the "elect" then one would focus on the phrase "children of Israel" in Lev 16. The only problem is that if one studies Jewish tradition one clearly understands that the Day of Atonement was for 'every Jew' not just some.
Within the biblical text, the sacrifice that was given once a year was for 'people', their sins and transgressions of ignorance (not a nation but the people within the nation). And here is the rub, Paul tells us that not all the circumcised Jews were children of the promise (i.e., elect). Maybe even most were not Jews of the promise but only Jews of the seed.
In other words, the Priests are giving sacrifices for all Jews, yes all symbolically are circumcised, but not all of them were children of the promise.
Thoughts?
Peace to you brother
In regard to your statement above. I think that you are accurate except for the added part at the end. There is no explicit nor implicit verse that tells us that the High Priest sacrifice (the Jewish sacrifice) made once a year called the Day of Atonement or Yom Kippur is for "the elect".
Now, I'm not discounting at this point that it is not a "representation" or "shadow" of what Christ did for the elect. Just pointing out and being strict with biblical accuracy that The Day of Atonement (Lev 16:21-22, Heb 9:7), also known as Yom Kippur gives no mention of "the elect" and no mention of only being for 'some Jews'.
The biblical text explicitly says... "confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins"... (upon the sacrificial goat). It was for the "peoples sins committed in ignorance" (Heb 9:7).
It would seem that if one was going to bring an argument that this sacrifice was only of the "elect" then one would focus on the phrase "children of Israel" in Lev 16. The only problem is that if one studies Jewish tradition one clearly understands that the Day of Atonement was for 'every Jew' not just some.
We agree that the sacrifice did not include Egypt or anyone outside of the Jewish people.
We agree that the individual sacrifices were shadows of Christ dying for the individual (i.e., elect). Where we would seem to disagree, or I'm just not clear, is your statement that the Day of Atonement was Christ dying for "the nation".
Within the biblical text, the sacrifice that was given once a year was for 'people', their sins and transgressions of ignorance (not a nation but the people within the nation). And here is the rub, Paul tells us that not all the circumcised Jews were children of the promise (i.e., elect). Maybe even most were not Jews of the promise but only Jews of the seed.
In other words, the Priests are giving sacrifices for all Jews, yes all symbolically are circumcised, but not all of them were children of the promise.
Thoughts?
Peace to you brother
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
@JesusFan I have to conclude that you are using Eph 1:4 as your justification for your stated view.
No one is predestined to election.
God’s sovereign choice from eternity was
1] to save those that would believe in Christ Jesus
2] that His people be holy and blameless before Him. Eph_1:13-14
{Rom_8:14-16, 2Co_1:21-22, Eph_4:30}
The Bible does not teach that we are chosen “to be” in Him but instead that those who have repented and believed are now “in him” {Christ} and are predestined to an inheritance, adoption, and to be holy and without blame before God. The choosing was for the blessings to be found in Christ, not those who would be in Christ. It is God choosing what those of us who are in Him {Christ} will receive. Eph_1:5-14 2Ti_1:9 In Ephesians 1, the only being in the passage that existed before the foundations of the world is Christ, the elect one.
Once the person is born again (Joh_3:3-7) by the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit (Tit_3:4-7) they receive every spiritual blessing immediately, in Christ, who is seated in the heavenly realm at the right hand of God. Furthermore, the Christian has now received the promise of eternal life and all the promises of inheritance that are associated with it, the moment that they believe and trust in Christ for salvation.
How are we saved? God chooses an individual for salvation by spiritually setting that person apart in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit, based on crediting the person's faith as righteousness. In Christ they undergo the washing of regeneration, they are made alive together with Christ, also called the circumcision of Christ where whatever God held against the individual is removed, and then the individual is indwelt with the Holy Spirit, our Helper who carries out the renewing of our mind.
Utter nonsense, first a change of subject to a "model of Redemption" then the absurd claim physical circumcision counts for anything under the New Covenant. I kid you not, the concept that Christ's death provides the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2 is something false teachers deny with nonsense.
Once again the plain truth is denied. Believers are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. Believers, rich in faith are chosen. Heirs to the kingdom promised to those that love God are chosen. Pay no attention to the unbiblical claims from the dark ages. 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:5