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Unlimited Atonement

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Ray Berrian

New Member
'I still want to know where in the Bible it gives instructions on how to be born again.'

Answer: John 5:24; Upon hearing the Word of the Gospel one has to believe savingly in Jesus by faith. Receiving the Gospel and Christ requires that that person believes that He is telling the truth. This response to the call of the Gospel-- we call faith. If we believe that the Father sent the Son to give us eternal life, as a child trusts in his or her father in this earthly realm, the Heavnly Father adopts us into the family of God.

Regards,

Dr. Berrian
 
rsr

rsr

<b> 7,000 posts club</b>
Moderator
"Yet I approve of the common reading, that He alone bore the punishment of many, because the guilt of the whole world was laid upon Him. It is evident from other passages...that 'many' sometimes denotes 'all'...That, then, is how our Lord Jesus bore the sins and iniquities of many. But in fact, this word 'many' is often as good as equivalent to 'all'. And indeed, our Lord Jesus was offered to all the world. For it is not speaking of three or four when it says: 'God so loved the world, that He spared not His only Son.' But yet we must notice what the Evangelist adds in this passage: 'That whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but obtain eternal life.' Our Lord Jesus suffered for all and there is neither great nor small who is not inexcusable today, for we can obtain salvation in Him. Unbelievers who turn away from Him and who deprive themselves of Him by their malice are today doubly culpable. For how will they excuse their ingratitude in not receiving the blessing in which they could share by faith? And let us realize that if we come flocking to our Lord Jesus Christ, we shall not hinder one another and prevent Him being sufficient for each of us...Let us not fear to come to Him in great numbers, and each one of us bring his neighbours, seeing that He is sufficient to save us all."
Jean Calvin
Sermons on Isaiah 53, pp. 136, 141-4

[ April 14, 2002, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]
 
T

tnelson

New Member
The Need of Sight Not Light

We must understand that the new birth of which Jesus was Speaking to Nicodemus was not the total work of quickening and conversion, for He said nothing of repentance and faith. In fact, He gave no command or instructions to Nicodemus on the matter. There are no instructions to be followed to obtain regeneration. Men are not commanded to be born again. They are simply told they must be. Men are commanded to repent and believe, but they will not repent and believe unless they have been born again.
Nicodemus's immediate need was sight, not light. More light to the blind will avail him nothing. He needs to see. "Except a man be born again he cannot (see) the kingdom of God"(John 3:3).
A classic example is given unto us in Paul's experience on the road to Damascus. Blindly stumbling along, unaware of his blindness, not knowing he was at enmity with God, he breathes threatening and murders against the saints of God (Act 26:9-18). Verse 13 tells us at midday he SAW. And When he SAW, he fell to the earth in repentance, and when he FELL, he HEARD. And when he HEARD, he CONFESSED that Jesus was Lord, and when he CONFESSED, he was given instructions. Nicodemus came seeking instructions. But he was far from being a candidate for instruction. Faith awaits hearing (Rom. 10:17), and hearing awaits seeing, and seeing awaits the quickening revealing word of God. Who hath believed our report? It is he to whom the arm of the Lord is REVEALED (Isa.53:1).
 
H

Historic Baptist

New Member
I hope I'm missing something from the post of that Arminian up there who stated something about the atonement and it was for the people after the cross. I don't think so. Job said HIS REDEEMER LIVED. Jesus is Job's redeemer just as much as He is mine. David said he knew God wouldn't leave him where he was when he died. How would God work all this out? Through the blood. That's why Old Testament saints couldn't go into heaven was because Jesus had not died yet.
 
F

Frank

New Member
Larry:
Try reading the context of the Hebrews 9, 10. The ALL by Implication are men. Once for all what? SIN . By implication, whom, ALL men. This is affrimed by I Jn. 2:2, Hebrews 2:9. Do you understand IMPLICATION?
Frank
 
P

Pastor Larry

<b>Moderator</b>
Site Supporter
Originally posted by Frank:
Larry:
Try reading the context of the Hebrews 9, 10. The ALL by Implication are men. Once for all what? SIN . By implication, whom, ALL men. This is affrimed by I Jn. 2:2, Hebrews 2:9. Do you understand IMPLICATION?
Frank
Click to expand...
I do understand implication. I do not believe you understand ephhapaz or dianekes because you have twisted them and the context to mean something it doesn't mean. These words expressly refer to time, not people. You are twisting the Word of God to say otherwise. I am sympathetic to your position about the atonement because I do think there is a sense in which the atonement is for all men. However, your understanding of that point from these verses is simply wrong. There are verses that support your view. These are not it.
 
R

Ray Berrian

New Member
From the time of Adam until the very end of time God will have only received into His Kingdom those who have come through His atonement. However, under various covenants they approached Him only as they obeyed His venue as to coming to Him. Under the Abrahamic Covenant, for example, they were required by God to bring a lamb sacrifice. Under the Mosaic Covenant they were to bring the lamb but also since becoming the Israelite nation they had to abide by the Law of God and the ordinances. These animal sacrifices were a foreshadowing of the coming perfect, sinless Redeemer who would die on the Cross. When they brought the animal sacrifice God accounted it as His own atonement shed for them and they were saved. How? They were redeemed through the blood of Christ.

Dr. Berrian
 
H

Historic Baptist

New Member
When they brought the animal sacrifice God accounted it as His own atonement shed for them and they were saved. --Ray Berrian
Click to expand...
The sacrifices in the Old Testament were only a shadow of good things to come. They never took the place of Christ's atonement on Calvary.

[Heb. 10:1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

If the sacrifices of the old covenant were sufficient for salvation the verse would not say it could not make the people perfect, and the old covenant saints would have went immediately to heaven when they died, but they did not. They went to paradise in Abraham's bosom. The old covenant sacrifices only put off the sins until the following year when another had to be made.

This is exactly what Pastor Larry is trying to say.

[Heb. 10:10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].

The sacrifice that Jesus made on Calvary will never lose its power. It will endure for all ages. The writer of Hebrews was absolutely right when he wrote "once for all." Have you never heard the phrase, 'Once and for all time.?' This is what the writer is precisely saying. No other sacrifice has to be made for all time because Jesus' sacrifice will never go out of date. I will not go into detail because Pastor Larry has already pointed out "all" refers to time and not people.

[ April 14, 2002, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Historic Baptist ]
 
E

Eric B

Active Member
Site Supporter
I hope I'm missing something from the post of that Arminian up there who stated something about the atonement and it was for the people after the cross. I don't think so. Job said HIS REDEEMER LIVED. Jesus is Job's redeemer just as much as He is mine. David said he knew God wouldn't leave him where he was when he died. How would God work all this out? Through the blood. That's why Old Testament saints couldn't go into heaven was because Jesus had not died yet.
Click to expand...
One, I don't define myself as Arminian, though I may be on that side of the debate. I have not sudied him or his whole theolgy, which if I'm not mistaken, would also deny eternal security.
Two, I wasn't denying that the atonement wasn't for people before the cross. Just the point that the question of whether it paid for those who had already died in their sins was moot.
 
H

Historic Baptist

New Member
If anyone believes Jesus did not die for those who had already died in their sins, he or she believes in a limited atonement.

[Rom. 5:19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

When Adam sinned and caused death to pass upon all men, was a choice given to any members of the human race as to which ones would be made sinners? No! Did God ask people if they wanted to be made sinners. No! It was an actuality with no conditions or questions about it. The many were made sinners. Christ's obedience is being compared to the disobedience of Adam. When Christ died, He actually saved somebody and obtained eternal redemption for them. Imagine that! It was not a matter of choice, but of what Christ had done.
 
H

Historic Baptist

New Member
[Rom. 5:19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Notice it says "were made righteous" as opposed to "will be made righteous." They were redeemed by His blood. And being reconciled by His death, they shall much more be saved by His life.

[Rom. 5:10] For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now if the whole world is reconciled to God, they all will be saved, for there is no such thing as a sinner reconciled to God that is not saved. Perish the thought!
 
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Ray Berrian

New Member
God through the death of His Son has made possible the reconciliation of every human being. This reconciliation is only placed, if you will, into action when a convicted sinner yields to Christ.

There is no harm done to the triune God and none of His glory is lost because of those who refuse Him. The loss is all on the side of those who refuse or neglect His infinite love.

Dr. Berrian
 
H

Historic Baptist

New Member
Nowhere in God's word does it say reconciliation was made a possibility by the death of Jesus.

[Rom. 5:19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

By the death of God's Son, many WERE made righteous, not WILL BE made righteous. The atonement Christ made secured salvation; it did not make it a possiblity.

[Is. 53:11] He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Jesus justified a people when He died on the cross. He reconciled them to God. Christ died in the stead of His people. If Christ has already died in one's stead, they do not owe anything. The debt has been paid! Is God going to punish one's sins twice?
 
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Ray Berrian

New Member
HistoricBaptist,

You said, 'No where in God's Word does it say that God made possible salvation for every person by the death of Jesus.' {or words to this effect} Read: [I Tim. 2:4a & 2:6a & John 3:16]

By your logic and need for exacting proof, neither can you tell me how God adopts a sinner into the family of God. And I would like to know the detailed order and ministrations of God in this matter.

Respectfully,

Dr. Berrian
 
H

Historic Baptist

New Member
(Eph. 1:4) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: (5) Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

(Acts 13:48) And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

(John 1:12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

(Rom. 8:15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

(Gal. 4:5) To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
 
R

Ray Berrian

New Member
Predestination unto adoption is always through the foreknowledge of God. He has always known who His adopted people are and will be. Election according to Foreknowledge is the second point on the Arminian side of the ledger. [Acts 2:23;Rom. 8:29; Rom. 11:2; I Peter 1:2]
The Greek word is {prognosis} to know beforehand. A doctor makes a prognosis of a persons health during an illness as to what the outcome will really be; Almighty God has made His prognosis from eternity past.

By staying with the Greek word, {prognosis} we do not blame God for placing people in an endless Hell.

Respectfully,

Dr. Berrian
 
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