Vatican Ain't Ready For Reform

[Walter]

Purgatory is fake place, its either heaven or hell!

You sound just like I did before I spemt the time studying. I suspect you would rather give your canned responses than to actually do the reading necessary to intelligently discuss the doctrines to which you object. You have done this for years here. Your seething hatred and mocking of Catholics is well documented.

 

[Yeshua1]

You sound just like I did before I spemt the time studying. I suspect you would rather give your canned responses than to actually do the reading necessary to intelligently discuss the doctrines to which you object. You have done this for years here. Your seething hatred and mocking of Catholics is well documented.

Hatred of Catholic dogmas and doctrines, not the Catholics themselves!

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Purgatory is fake place, its either heaven or hell!

IT IS A STATE WITHIN THE HOLY FIRE OF GOD. Learn to read. All go through it ,for all is tested by the fire
Christ Our Foundation 1Corinthians 3:12-14
…12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward.…

It would seem you are not even a student of the Word but rather a provocateur . Again, (Sola Scriptura) for most Protestants is not truly believed . It is rather, a lot of lip service.
Matthew 15:7-9
…7You hypocrites! Isaiah prophesied correctly about you: 8‘These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. 9They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts of men.’”…

Now , the predictable argument against what I point out is:
THE WORD PURGATORY IS NOT IN SCRIPTURE. I would like to point out nor is Holy Trinity but with the equation of the word we come to that sum.

Again the ancient Hebrews called it a (Passing Through Fire), it means the same thing as a purging by fire, which also means a testing or proving by fire. 13. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward.… IF WHAT HE HAS BUILT SURVIVES HE WILL RECEIVE A REWARD?
What is the REWARD? Who is testing, what would have to survive? What is it we build upon the foundation? By whom has all come forth by? Who laid the foundation? The foundation is life itself, what we build upon that are our life works. So far you are adhering to and building a lot of hay.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Hatred of Catholic dogmas and doctrines, not the Catholics themselves!

Then you hate the foundation from which the doctrines are developed from . The Dogma of Faith.....you prove time and time again you do not possess .

 

[Yeshua1]

IT IS A STATE WITHIN THE HOLY FIRE OF GOD. Learn to read. All go through it ,for all is tested by the fire
Christ Our Foundation 1Corinthians 3:12-14
…12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward.…

It would seem you are not even a student of the Word but rather a provocateur . Again, (Sola Scriptura) for most Protestants is not truly believed . It is rather, a lot of lip service.
Matthew 15:7-9
…7You hypocrites! Isaiah prophesied correctly about you: 8‘These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. 9They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts of men.’”…

Now , the predictable argument against what I point out is:
THE WORD PURGATORY IS NOT IN SCRIPTURE. I would like to point out nor is Holy Trinity but with the equation of the word we come to that sum.

Again the ancient Hebrews called it a (Passing Through Fire), it means the same thing as a purging by fire, which also means a testing or proving by fire. 13. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward.… IF WHAT HE HAS BUILT SURVIVES HE WILL RECEIVE A REWARD?
What is the REWARD? Who is testing, what would have to survive? What is it we build upon the foundation? By whom has all come forth by? Who laid the foundation? The foundation is life itself, what we build upon that are our life works. So far you are adhering to and building a lot of hay.

ALL who get to the judgment seat of Christ are already saved, as that fire is NOTHING to do with sins, but with judgment upon good works of the believer!

 

[Yeshua1]

Then you hate the foundation from which the doctrines are developed from . The Dogma of Faith.....you prove time and time again you do not possess .

Are you saying that I am not saved?

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Sacramentalism is NOT the way God grants salvation to any lost sinner!

The sacraments are faith and works .
James 2:18-24
18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?e 21Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. 24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

ALL who get to the judgment seat of Christ are already saved, as that fire is NOTHING to do with sins, but with judgment upon good works of the believer!

I know, wood hay and straw receive a reward according to you. That is all good work ???

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Are you saying that I am not saved?

As you say: " I hate the doctrine, dogmas of your denomination, not you who are from it".
It would seem you do not like, applied to you that which you apply and state concerning everyone else. Now , you feel attacked?
dog·ma
/ˈdôɡmə/
noun
noun: dogma; plural noun: dogmas
a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.
You speak not from a heavenly authority, CHRIST. But it is clear you believe in some doctrinal authority whether you call it dogma or not. You believe your denominational doctrine to be incontrovertibly true or you would not be so emphatic about what you claim.

POINT: You can not support your rebuttals with scripture alone, as I have. You do divide the scriptures and try to use them against the other. this proves you have a false interpretation. For God is NOT an AUTHOR of CONFUSION! Your interpretation is.
1 Corinthians 14:33 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.
As in all the churches of the saints,

It is true ,people like Francis confuses the faith . He in fact seeks to attack Dogma like 'The Lord's Prayer' he will answer to God.
But for sure Catholics do hold the Dogma of the faith (That Francis seeks to change), Protestants do not. They omit too much, everything that does not gel with their train of thought. To dismantle men who are harlots does not mean you dismantle the Word!
That is what Luther and Calvin -all Protestant doctrine has done and continues to do so ,until all you are left with is hay, wood and straw.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

ALL who get to the judgment seat of Christ are already saved, as that fire is NOTHING to do with sins, but with judgment upon good works of the believer!

Then why a reference to silver , gold , precious gems , wood , hay and straw by St. Paul? And what is the reward? When is the reward? Is it after you leave this physical world upon death of the body? Is this the DAY which brings all works forth, or is it some other day?

My POINT: You say heaven or hell, what are they for? Does hay wood or straw enter heaven? I am simply showing a process for souls depending upon YOUR QUALITY- will determine the effect God's cleansing fire has on you.If you die a precious gem , NO BURN! YOU Enter into heaven with nothing to be purified. You can achieve this state on earth=NO PURGING! You really do not get it. You do not understand Jacob's ladder either.
Perhaps the best thing for you is to not try and teach about the Word.
Taming the Tongue James 3:1-2
1Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is (never) at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man (precious gem), able to control his whole body.…
You would do well, since you do not teach in truth, to just be quiet, love all Christians and not condemn other's doctrines which you clearly do not understand, but their doctrine is clearly supported by the foundation. Do good charitable works for those in need. Confess Christ always and never condemn brethren of other denominations for their veneration of saints which scripture too supports. Simply put: close your mouth and think others better than yourself.
Philippians 2:3 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
3 Do nothing from selfishness or conceit, but in humility count others better than yourselves.
Unity in the Body Ephesians 4:1-3
1As a prisoner in the Lord, then, I urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling you have received: 2with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, 3and with diligence to preserve the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.…

All of us should be more patient with one another

Judgement is another discussion , it would seem you do not get the DAY as to dying and the DAY as to the judgement.

 

[Yeshua1]

I know, wood hay and straw receive a reward according to you. That is all good work ???

No, those would be loss of eternal rewards, but still have eternal life in Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

As you say: " I hate the doctrine, dogmas of your denomination, not you who are from it".
It would seem you do not like, applied to you that which you apply and state concerning everyone else. Now , you feel attacked?
dog·ma
/ˈdôɡmə/
noun
noun: dogma; plural noun: dogmas
a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.
You speak not from a heavenly authority, CHRIST. But it is clear you believe in some doctrinal authority whether you call it dogma or not. You believe your denominational doctrine to be incontrovertibly true or you would not be so emphatic about what you claim.

POINT: You can not support your rebuttals with scripture alone, as I have. You do divide the scriptures and try to use them against the other. this proves you have a false interpretation. For God is NOT an AUTHOR of CONFUSION! Your interpretation is.
1 Corinthians 14:33 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.
As in all the churches of the saints,

It is true ,people like Francis confuses the faith . He in fact seeks to attack Dogma like 'The Lord's Prayer' he will answer to God.
But for sure Catholics do hold the Dogma of the faith (That Francis seeks to change), Protestants do not. They omit too much, everything that does not gel with their train of thought. To dismantle men who are harlots does not mean you dismantle the Word!
That is what Luther and Calvin -all Protestant doctrine has done and continues to do so ,until all you are left with is hay, wood and straw.

Actually, we strip away all of the manmade traditions and dogmas of the so called Theology of Rome to get back to just what was taught in the word of God itself!

 

[Yeshua1]

Then why a reference to silver , gold , precious gems , wood , hay and straw by St. Paul? And what is the reward? When is the reward? Is it after you leave this physical world upon death of the body? Is this the DAY which brings all works forth, or is it some other day?

My POINT: You say heaven or hell, what are they for? Does hay wood or straw enter heaven? I am simply showing a process for souls depending upon YOUR QUALITY- will determine the effect God's cleansing fire has on you.If you die a precious gem , NO BURN! YOU Enter into heaven with nothing to be purified. You can achieve this state on earth=NO PURGING! You really do not get it. You do not understand Jacob's ladder either.
Perhaps the best thing for you is to not try and teach about the Word.
Taming the Tongue James 3:1-2
1Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is (never) at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man (precious gem), able to control his whole body.…
You would do well, since you do not teach in truth, to just be quiet, love all Christians and not condemn other's doctrines which you clearly do not understand, but their doctrine is clearly supported by the foundation. Do good charitable works for those in need. Confess Christ always and never condemn brethren of other denominations for their veneration of saints which scripture too supports. Simply put: close your mouth and think others better than yourself.
Philippians 2:3 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
3 Do nothing from selfishness or conceit, but in humility count others better than yourselves.
Unity in the Body Ephesians 4:1-3
1As a prisoner in the Lord, then, I urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling you have received: 2with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, 3and with diligence to preserve the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.…

All of us should be more patient with one another

Judgement is another discussion , it would seem you do not get the DAY as to dying and the DAY as to the judgement.

Apostle paul would address the errors and false doctrines in the Church of Rome, do you?

 

[Yeshua1]

As you say: " I hate the doctrine, dogmas of your denomination, not you who are from it".
It would seem you do not like, applied to you that which you apply and state concerning everyone else. Now , you feel attacked?
dog·ma
/ˈdôɡmə/
noun
noun: dogma; plural noun: dogmas
a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.
You speak not from a heavenly authority, CHRIST. But it is clear you believe in some doctrinal authority whether you call it dogma or not. You believe your denominational doctrine to be incontrovertibly true or you would not be so emphatic about what you claim.

POINT: You can not support your rebuttals with scripture alone, as I have. You do divide the scriptures and try to use them against the other. this proves you have a false interpretation. For God is NOT an AUTHOR of CONFUSION! Your interpretation is.
1 Corinthians 14:33 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.
As in all the churches of the saints,

It is true ,people like Francis confuses the faith . He in fact seeks to attack Dogma like 'The Lord's Prayer' he will answer to God.
But for sure Catholics do hold the Dogma of the faith (That Francis seeks to change), Protestants do not. They omit too much, everything that does not gel with their train of thought. To dismantle men who are harlots does not mean you dismantle the Word!
That is what Luther and Calvin -all Protestant doctrine has done and continues to do so ,until all you are left with is hay, wood and straw.

the big difference is that my Church teaches the real Gospel, and yours does not though...

 

[OfLivingWaters]

the big difference is that my Church teaches the real Gospel, and yours does not though...

What church is that? I am aware of the meaning of this prophecy.
Isaiah 5:1-2
Future Blessings for Zion
1“Shout for joy, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth into song and cry aloud, you who have never travailed; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband,” says the LORD. 2“Enlarge the site of your tent, stretch out the curtains of your dwellings, do not hold back. Lengthen your ropes and drive your stakes deep.…

Correlates with Rev 14. I am simply Christian , nondenominational I said. I recognize the season we are in and recognize precious gems in denominations, is all and I will defend those precious gems= doctrines.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Apostle paul would address the errors and false doctrines in the Church of Rome, do you?

Absolutely, if you read my post without bias from indoctrination you would have seen that. New season upon us, the Rev.12 season.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Actually, we strip away all of the manmade traditions and dogmas of the so called Theology of Rome to get back to just what was taught in the word of God itself!

According to you by opinion but not according to scripture alone. To each his own, have at it !

 

[OfLivingWaters]

No, those would be loss of eternal rewards, but still have eternal life in Christ!

???

 

[Wesley Briggman]

As you say: " I hate the doctrine, dogmas of your denomination, not you who are from it".
It would seem you do not like, applied to you that which you apply and state concerning everyone else. Now , you feel attacked?

1Ti 6:1 KJV - Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and [his] doctrine be not blasphemed.
1Ti 6:2 KJV - And they that have believing masters, let them not despise [them], because they are brethren; but rather do [them] service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
1Ti 6:3 KJV - If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 KJV - He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 KJV - Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

I choose to withdraw from interacting with OfLivingWaters.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

1Ti 6:1 KJV - Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and [his] doctrine be not blasphemed.
1Ti 6:2 KJV - And they that have believing masters, let them not despise [them], because they are brethren; but rather do [them] service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
1Ti 6:3 KJV - If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 KJV - He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 KJV - Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

I choose to withdraw from interacting with OfLivingWaters.

Your choice, and not because I have not upheld my claims with the Word either but because of that . Your tree is being uprooted.
I on the other hand am planted by living waters.
Jeremiah 17:8
8 He is like a tree planted by water,
that sends out its roots by the stream,
and does not fear when heat comes,
for its leaves remain green,
and is not anxious in the year of drought,
for it does not cease to bear fruit.”

A Tree and its Fruit Matthew 7:18-20
…18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20So then, by their fruit you will recognize them.…

Your doctrine could not take the heat (FIRE) and your doctrine has been tried and shown to burn. I have WITHOUT QUESTION SURVIVED THE HEAT, my leaves remain green. I will not be anxious in the year of drought. I will not cease to bear fruit in the season of desolation , for then my children will be many. At present I have no husband-(denomination) says my Lord . But in no way does my Lord say I do not have Him. You keep your doctrinal fathers and the precepts of men.

The bible verses you post are not in regards to them but the foundational fathers, those who are Hebrew . To whom the Word of God has come.
Psalm 1:2-4
…2But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on His law he meditates day and night. 3He is like a tree planted by streams of water, yielding its fruit in season, whose leaf does not wither, and who prospers in all he does. 4Not so the wicked! For they are like chaff driven off by the wind.…
You exchanged the foundation elders for you denominations men.

The River of Life Rev.22:1-2
1Then the angel showed me a river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2down the middle of the main street of the city. On either side of the river stood a tree of life, producing twelve kinds of fruit and yielding a fresh crop for each month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.…

For there to be a need for healing , there would have to first be a wound. This will come during the time of desolation (the wound).