Featured Victims of Soteriological Dishonesty

Just a note to observe this is an excellent thread, thanks to all contributors. As seen in this thread, many say they are not Calvinists, but ask them which if any of the five points of the T.U.L.I.P. they disavow and the answer will be none or evasion. Red flag folks, red flag.

 

All depennds on how one defines being a calvinist means, as Reformed bethren have tended to see that as one holding to the entire theology of Covenant theology, entire calvinist theology proper, while others like me see it mainly one holding to DoG, the reformed sotierology theology!

 

Say Rev, I wonder if you would have bothered to put this on the board if the pastor believed like you do. Sounds like granny has a closed mind to the truth, maybe everyone else in the church likes what they are hearing.

 

Hi JonC, if I asked you which of the 5 points of the TULIP you disavow, I expect you would evade. I disavow the TULI of the tulip. Nothing vague about my position. I like to stand in the light.

T = Total Spiritual Inability, unable in our fallen natural state to seek God and trust in Christ.

U = Unconditional Election, God chose us individually for salvation not through faith in the truth or other characteristic.

L = Limited Atonement, Christ died for only the elect and did not die as a ransom for all.

I = Irresistible Grace, God converts a person unable to believe into a person who irresistibly comes to faith.

In summary, the TULI teaches we were saved or damned from all eternity for all eternity and nothing we can do will alter that outcome for ourselves or our loved ones. I believe it is a mistaken view of scripture.

 

there are some, but very few, PB churches where you can preach anything you want from the pulpit and no one would notice.
I found this to be because they are not really grounded on doctrine, having come from other denominations, or some are just too gracious to come up and confront error.
When I opposed the missions among our people, some thought I was being too harsh and should apply love and tolerance.
I imagine the guy came in and was accepted as a brother from another PB church.

 

TULIP does not a Calvinist make!

 

You need to get that Kentucky redneck after them.

 

Hi JonC, yes your statement was clear. From my side of the street, you are a 3.5 point Calvinist.

Matthew 13 teaches that some men are unable to understand the gospel, but not all men. It teaches that others are willing to receive the gospel, yet do not make a whole-hearted commitment. Still others commit but do not toss out other worldly treasures. If the "work of the Holy Spirit" refers to the preservation and presentation of the gospel of Christ, then we agree, if it is code for enabling a fallen person to seek God and trust in Christ, then again I am on the other side of the street.

We both agree God elects, but we disagree that God elects individuals unconditionally. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God chooses us through faith in the truth, thus a conditional election.

Again, we disagree on limited atonement, Christ died to become the propitiation for the whole world, not just a subset. 1 Peter 2:1 teaches Christ bought with His blood, those who would not be saved.

We agree (!!!) on irresistible grace. It is a mistaken view of scripture.

And we agree on OSAS.

Thanks for your candor.

 

From my side of the street, where my "little soap box" sits, this thread is about the deception used by Calvinists to deceive the body of Christ. It is about dictatorial elitists who drive those who trust in God and not man from the church, using deception and malice. Know anybody like that?

 

:laugh::laugh: Oh brother ! ROFL!!!

 

My dear Revmitchell, folks that say "its not about" but omit "what it is about" are shoveling sand against the tide. Truth matters. Your OP addressed the deceit of Calvinism. I am addressing the specifics of that deceit.

"We realize the pain caused by such spiritual subterfuge."

 

The issue here isn't the soteriology, as I said. It's the integrity of a man and the means he employs.

So if you want to compare the degrees to which less than scrupulous individuals of either camp employ a stealth and somewhat underhanded strategy to further an agenda, one needs only look to the way that transistions from spiritual modes of worship to carnal and exhibitionistic styles are accomplished, and your dearth becomes a flood.