Was it God's will for Adam to Sin ?

[DHK]

Stop coming on, accusing me of things, and saying the Bible is doing it, things the Bible does not say, and things I have not done.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Have you transgressed God's law; not just the OT, but the commands of Christ? Have you transgressed any of the commands of God or Christ? That is sin.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Scripture is clear, all in this dispensation have sinned. Now DHK, what is your point? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

 

[Moriah]

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Have you transgressed God's law; not just the OT, but the commands of Christ? Have you transgressed any of the commands of God or Christ? That is sin.

You cannot accuse people of sins that they did not do.

 

[DHK]

Scripture is clear, all in this dispensation have sinned. Now DHK, what is your point? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

I am glad you agree. Just trying to get everyone on the same page; that's all.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Using the logic of DHK one could logically assume that the way to heaven is by sin, for if one has no sin DHK would conclude that such a one is a liar and the truth is not in him.

Well to be totally honest he changes his tune about as often as the wind changes in Nebraska. In his next breath he will conclude that every man including every Christian is a liar. Go figure.

I thought Scripture was pretty clear about liars, and that they would have no place in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[DHK]

You cannot accuse people of sins that they did not do.

I didn't accuse you did I? I quoted Scripture. Don't you agree with it?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Let the reader make no mistake. I do not agree with DHK. I use the word 'sinned', past tense. There is not one verse in Scripture anywhere that states that a believer must have present sin or be in the commission of a sin.

 

[Moriah]

I didn't accuse you did I? I quoted Scripture. Don't you agree with it?

No, you accused. You said I committed adultery. I have not committed adultery. You then called me a liar. Just because a person breaks the whole law when they break one law that does not mean you can falsely accuse them of a sin they did not do.

 

[DHK]

Let the reader make no mistake. I do not agree with DHK. I use the word 'sinned', past tense. There is not one verse in Scripture anywhere that states that a believer must have present sin or be in the commission of a sin.

Why have you changed your mind?
All have sinned.
There is none righteous; no not one.
Let God be true, but every man a liar (including HP and Moriah).

Are you sinless?
Why is is so hard for a person to admit that they are a sinner?
I suppose it is a matter of pride, which of course, is another sin.

According to James 2:10 if you lie (break the least of the commandments) you are just as guilty as if you have murdered or broken all of the commandments. You are guilty under the law.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Excellent point Moriah. :thumbs:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

In one breath you condemn one as a liar, and in the other breath you tell us that all believers are liars. It is a small thing indeed to be judged by you DHK.

 

[Moriah]

Excellent point Moriah. :thumbs:

Thanks HP. When someone sinned and was sentenced to death, they were charged with the sin they actually committed. Can you imagine how it went according to DHK…someone commits murder but gets charged with adultery? What is he thinking?

 

[DHK]

In one breath you condemn one as a liar, and in the other breath you tell us that all believers are liars. It is a small thing indeed to be judged by you DHK.

Are you a sinner?

 

[The Biblicist]

In one breath you condemn one as a liar, and in the other breath you tell us that all believers are liars. It is a small thing indeed to be judged by you DHK.

DHK is not contradicting himself nor is he inconsistent. You simply either choose to ignore his position and/or to distort it.

If you believe as he does that the natural man is aptly described by Paul in Romans 3:10-18 then all unregenerate men are liars.

If you believe as he does that the regenerated man still has the old nature which is aptly described in Romans 3:10-18 and thus described in Romans 7:14-25 as he does then the old nature has not changed has it!

Of course you know he believes both and he is perfectly consistent with what he believes but you are purposely attempting to distort him. How honest is that?

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Now, do your classic response and simply attack this passage and try to prove it does not apply to all lost men instead of confessing that DHK is perfectly consistent with what he believes.

 

[DHK]

Thanks HP. When someone sinned and was sentenced to death, they were charged with the sin they actually committed. Can you imagine how it went according to DHK…someone commits murder but gets charged with adultery? What is he thinking?

Perhaps he was thinking that Moriah ought to read James 2:10,11 and 1John 3:4.

 

[Moriah]

Perhaps he was thinking that Moriah ought to read James 2:10,11 and 1John 3:4.

I have read those scriptures. John and James do not say I commit adultery, and they do not call me a liar.

 

[The Biblicist]

Thanks HP. When someone sinned and was sentenced to death, they were charged with the sin they actually committed. Can you imagine how it went according to DHK…someone commits murder but gets charged with adultery? What is he thinking?

Your problem is very simple - you simply do not believe God's word in James 2:10-11 or 1 Jn. 4:6 or Romans 3:9-23 or 1 Jn. 1:8-10. You won't honestly deal with these scriptures because you can't and still espouse what you are saying.

 

[Moriah]

Your problem is very simple - you simply do not believe God's word in James 2:10-11 or 1 Jn. 4:6 or Romans 3:9-23 or 1 Jn. 1:8-10. You won't honestly deal with these scriptures because you can't and still espouse what you are saying.

You go against God's Word. You do not just go against a few scriptures; you go against the deep things of God.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Here is just one in 1John DHK seems to have failed to take into serious consideration.

Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

 

[The Biblicist]

Thanks HP. When someone sinned and was sentenced to death, they were charged with the sin they actually committed. Can you imagine how it went according to DHK…someone commits murder but gets charged with adultery? What is he thinking?

You think these commandments simply deal with the EXTERNAL act of adultery or murder?????????? Apparently you do or you could not respond the way you do with a straight face!

You don't understand that God view adulter and murder already committed in the heart even if you are prevented from carrying them out Externally:

Read and learn:

Mt. 5:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:


Mt. 5:21 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:

Mt. 5:27 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

God's moral law reveals God's righteousness and so to violate it at any point (James 2:10-11) makes you UNGODLY or not like God and thus UNRIGHTEOUS because it only takes one point to be called a "sinner" and God can never be called a "sinner" because he never commit even one sin.