Was Jesus A Man Before the Incarnation?

[Jarthur001]

Marcia, don't be confused honey, you just have not got my position because I never gave you one. I rather not debate over something so superficial, if it does not edify my spiritual walk with the Lord, or draw me closer to Him. Then I ask myself "really, what's the point?" This whole time I been feeling out your position. And questing it like a good stuart should..

Funny way NOT to debate.

Another way to not to debate, is not to post, till you find a thread you want to debate on.

Just a idea.

I am not taking sides between you two, But frankly, I have yet to see you prove anything. Your statements are true, but not addressing the point is...well.....pointless.

I could also make this statment...

And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Which is ture, addresses God, but would saying nothing about Jesus as a man.

This is the same as your...
"The same yesterday today and forever" Which has nothing to do with Jesus as a man.

 

[Brandon C. Jones]

But she does need to prove herself, because I'm asking her to, and the verse I quoted states to prove all things. And the WORD OF GOD is on my side.......

The Word of God is on your side, huh? I've heard that one before. The grace period before being ignored by me may be running thin for this junior member.

BJ

 

[Atonement]

As I stated it's your position and your debate.. This does not edify the believer, nor does it draw us closer to God. It could cause a stumbling block for a babe in the Lord, thus I will have no part of, I'll step down.. You Win.. May God enrich you with His truths and understanding..:thumbs:

 

[Jarthur001]

As I stated it's your position and your debate.. This does not edify the believer, nor does it draw us closer to God. It could cause a stumbling block for a babe in the Lord, thus I will have no part of, I'll step down.. You Win.. May God enrich you with His truths and understanding..:thumbs:

Stop by and share your great wisdom again sometime.

But you may not want to post pointless words as you edify for this may be a stumbling block to some.


Good to meet you...


In Christ...James

 

[webdog]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm waiting on Webdog to clarify his statements. That's mainly how this thread started (clarifying statements made on another thread).

I don't think, though, that being made in God's image has anything to do with the appearance of God, who is invisible (acc. to the bible). It has to do with the fact that we were created with a will, intelligence, language, a sense of morality, and the ability to be aware of and to communicate with God.

I really don't understand what you need me to clarify. I answered your question. The term "man" is used in terms of angels and THE Angel of God. It's not something I made up, but what Scripture clearly teaches...

Gen 18:1 Then the LORD appeared to Abraham at the oaks of Mamre while he was sitting in the entrance of his tent during the heat of the day.
Gen 18:2 He looked up, and he saw three men standing near him. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to meet them and bowed to the ground.
Gen 18:3 Then he said, "My lord, if I have found favor in your sight, please do not go on past your servant.

 

[webdog]

My position is entirely biblical: Jesus was not man before the incarnation. He may have appeared to be a man or angel in the OT, but he was not a man because he had not incarnated. He entered and became a participant in history and humanity in the incarnation. This is what makes the incarnation so unique and extraordinary.

I'm sorry, but your position is not biblical. I have shown from the above verse I posted that our Lord did appear as "man" prior to being born. If God was bound by time...our time...your view might be true, but God is not. He is omnipresent / omnitemporal...outside of time. He does work inside of time, as you mention being born, but He is not bound by that. Christ exists in the past, now and the future all at the same time. This is true ubiquity, what omnipresence is.

 

[Jarthur001]

I really don't understand what you need me to clarify. I answered your question. The term "man" is used in terms of angels and THE Angel of God. It's not something I made up, but what Scripture clearly teaches...

Gen 18:1 Then the LORD appeared to Abraham at the oaks of Mamre while he was sitting in the entrance of his tent during the heat of the day.
Gen 18:2 He looked up, and he saw three men standing near him. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to meet them and bowed to the ground.
Gen 18:3 Then he said, "My lord, if I have found favor in your sight, please do not go on past your servant.

Hello webdog,


To get a better understanding, why do you feel this is Jesus?

 

[Brother Bob]

Marcia, don't be confused honey,

BTW, I'm not your "honey" so please refrain from using that term.

"honey" gone :laugh: :applause: :wavey: :wavey:

 

[webdog]

Hello webdog,


To get a better understanding, why do you feel this is Jesus?

It's clear the Lord visited Abraham. Don't you agree?

 

[webdog]

Questions...can man see God the Father...and live? Can man see the Holy Spirit? Jesus is the only one of the Godhead we can conclude that men have had physical contact with...and lived.

 

[Marcia]

I really don't understand what you need me to clarify. I answered your question. The term "man" is used in terms of angels and THE Angel of God. It's not something I made up, but what Scripture clearly teaches...

Gen 18:1 Then the LORD appeared to Abraham at the oaks of Mamre while he was sitting in the entrance of his tent during the heat of the day.

Webdog, the issue has never been whether Jesus appeared this way.

This issue is: Was Jesus always a man, as in the God-Man? I believe according to Jn 1.14 and Heb. 2 that he became the God-man at the incarnation. He added humanity and a physical body at the incarnation, not before.

If I understood you correctly, from these statements you made below, it seems you are saying he was always the God-Man. Is that what you are saying?

How can you believe that Jesus has not always been God / Man? We see numerous times in the OT where The Angel of the Lord appeared in human form...ate...walked. He was Deity, and since God the Father is Spirit...and the Holy Spirit is obviously Spirit, who would The Angel of God have been? You tread slippery ground to state that how Christ exists now, He has not always existed.

It is said that God is 100% God and 100% Man. How? He only exists like that now, and 3000 years ago He existed as something else?

Maybe the OP question should have been: Was Jesus the God-Man Before the Incarnation? So are you saying yes? If so, I disagree.

 

[Marcia]

"honey" gone :laugh: :applause:

That's what he was calling me!

We never got to hear his explanation for the 16 dimensions he asserted to exist.

 

[Brother Bob]

There was no Jesus befor the incarnation. There was Lord, Christ but Jesus was the man born of Mary, the body of flesh that Christ took, made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death.

 

[Jarthur001]

It's clear the Lord visited Abraham. Don't you agree?

No, I do not agree. It says "Then the LORD appeared to Abraham"

This is why I asked...Why do you think this is Jesus?

 

[Jarthur001]

There was no Jesus befor the incarnation. There was Lord, Christ but Jesus was the man born of Mary, the body of flesh that Christ took, made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death.

I agree 100% Bob. More then just what you said....this is not "Lord"...but "LORD" which means it was God the Father. Anytime you see LORD in all Caps this is the name of God, or Jehovah. This is speaking of God the Father.

I do not mean to be too hard on webdog, for many people over look this because of the next two verse...

Verse 2 and 3...

And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw [them], he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

We still need to deal with the 3 men in verse 2..and the word Lord in verse 3.

The word Lord in verse 3 is Adonay which is the title only used of God. This could be the Son of God or God the Father. Not sure about the Holy Spirit. Maybe you can help me on this Bob...Can Lord be used as a title to the Holy Spirit? I do not know.

But I do know that it can be used of both the Father and the Son and if its the same subject of verse one then it is God the Father. Now..this does have another meaning, if you hold that the 3 men are The 3 persons of the Godhead. This is one meaning, but there is another also.

But we are in agreement on this Bob. :thumbsup:

 

[Brother Bob]

Oh, I think the Lord appeared in many forms such as Wisdom, The Word, the Cloud, The Rock, The Tree of Life but as Jesus that was for one purpose and that is the Salvation of man from sin.

 

[Jarthur001]

Oh, I think the Lord appeared in many forms such as Wisdom, The Word, the Cloud, The Rock, The Tree of Life but as Jesus that was for one purpose and that is the Salvation of man from sin.

I agree..Bob.

Bob, what do you know about the word Lord as used as a title for the Holy Spirit?

I do not know of it used this way, but I may be wrong. Just wanting to know if you knew. Or...for that matter...if any one knew.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, what do you know about the word Lord as used as a title for the Holy Spirit?

All I know James is it is part of the Godhead and we call the other two Lord.

 

[webdog]

No, I do not agree. It says "Then the LORD appeared to Abraham"

This is why I asked...Why do you think this is Jesus?

The word Lord, and the fact that Abraham bowed before Him. We see in numerous places "The Angel of the Lord", who is known as deity, not just "an" angel.

 

[Jarthur001]

Not to belabor the point, but it was bugging me, so I just looked it up and Lord is a title of the Holy Spirit as well. This is something I had just never thought of before. Now I know.

Jdg 6:34 But the Spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet; and Abiezer was gathered after him.

"Spirit of the LORD" is used 90 some times in the KJV.


Sorry to get off track...but it was bugging me.

OK...back to the subject.