Not always. Check the genealogy of Christ in Matthew one. Are all in that genealogy males. No, there are at least two females aren't there? There is Rahab the harlot mentioned. And there is Ruth the Moabitess mentioned. Not only are they female they are from outside the nation of Israel. Yet they are in the ancestry of Christ.
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Was Jesus Christ a Jew by Blood ?
- Thread starter savedbymercy
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Not always. Check the genealogy of Christ in Matthew one. Are all in that genealogy males. No, there are at least two females aren't there? There is Rahab the harlot mentioned. And there is Ruth the Moabitess mentioned. Not only are they female they are from outside the nation of Israel. Yet they are in the ancestry of Christ.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Mat 1:5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
HP: Notice carefully that they are mentioned, but it is only in passing in connection to their husbands, the blood line being traced that of the fathers, Booz and Obed.
The blood line is always traced through the fathers blood and not that of the mother.
HP: Notice carefully that they are mentioned, but it is only in passing in connection to their husbands, the blood line being traced that of the fathers, Booz and Obed.
The blood line is always traced through the fathers blood and not that of the mother.
However, back as far as Genesis 3:15 the promise was given that the Messiah would be born "of the seed of the woman." That seed would be recognized in Mary, and that blood line would be traced back to David, as it was in Matthew one.
Matthew 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
--Joseph was put there to satisfy the legalities of the Jews. But we know that Christ was not born of Joseph; he was born of Mary conceived of the Holy Spirit. Mary's bloodline goes back to David.
Trace back Joseph's bloodline. It may be of David, but it was also a cursed bloodline. His children could never inherit the throne of David.
savedbymercy
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bib
That was fulfilled through the virgin Birth, Mary was a Physical descendant of David, in fact Josephs line had been disualifed. God did use a young damsel, a Virgin Mary to fulfill that Prophecy, and God did use her to shape that body .he was given into the form of a servant.
Jesus did come forth out of the body of Mary, who was literially out of the loins of David, this however does not mean that Jesus had one drop of blood from Mary. Also, it is a big difference in saying that Jesus Christ came out of Mary rather than saying He came from mary.
The prep ek is always used in this regard, i.e Gal 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Rom 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
That was fulfilled by His Mother Mary. Do you believe that Jesus was literially from the fruit of David's Loins ? David was a sinner, you know !
That was fulfilled through the virgin Birth, Mary was a Physical descendant of David, in fact Josephs line had been disualifed. God did use a young damsel, a Virgin Mary to fulfill that Prophecy, and God did use her to shape that body .he was given into the form of a servant.
Jesus did come forth out of the body of Mary, who was literially out of the loins of David, this however does not mean that Jesus had one drop of blood from Mary. Also, it is a big difference in saying that Jesus Christ came out of Mary rather than saying He came from mary.
The prep ek is always used in this regard, i.e Gal 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Rom 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
That was fulfilled by His Mother Mary. Do you believe that Jesus was literially from the fruit of David's Loins ? David was a sinner, you know !
It has to mean that Jesus was the fruit of Mary's seed (Gen. 3;16 "her seed") beause he says "ACCORDING TO THE FLESH" rather than "according to the Spirit"!!!!!
savedbymercy
New Member
The woman technically does not have the seed, nor was Jesus out of mary's egg ! He was literally out of the Holy Ghost and placed into her womb Matt 1:18
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
The womans seed there in Gen 3:16 was referring to Eve, for she acknowledged that God had given Her another seed after the death of abel, and then she had seth Gen 4:26
25And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Now there is no scripture that says Jesus is the fruit of mary's seed, that is more lies !
According to the Flesh He is Adam's Seed look at the Genaology of Lk 3:23-38
According to the flesh He is of the Seed of David Rom 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
You show your scriptural incompetence more and more !
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Heavenly Pilgrim
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HP: A completely false notion unfounded in Scripture. DHK, if you want to try to derail this thread with such notions, may I kindly suggest that a better way might be to start your own thread on that issue.:thumbs:
Instead of condemning what I say as false, perhaps you should ask why first.
It is not false, and I can give the Biblical proof why. Your arrogance is noted.
Jeremiah 22:24 As I live, saith the LORD, though Coniah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah were the signet upon my right hand, yet would I pluck thee thence;
Jeremiah 22:26 And I will cast thee out, and thy mother that bare thee, into another country, where ye were not born; and there shall ye die.
Jeremiah 22:28 Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?
Jeremiah 22:29-30 O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD. Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.
Joseph, though a descendant of David was also a descendant of Coniah.
Coniah, though a descendant of David was cursed. The curse plainly states that none of his seed would ever sit on the throne of David. So, although Joseph's ancestry can be traced to David it was cursed because of Coniah. If Christ was born of Josiah he would be ineligible to sit on the the throne of David because of ancestry of Joseph coming through Coniah. This is another important reason for the virgin birth.
Jeremiah 22:26 And I will cast thee out, and thy mother that bare thee, into another country, where ye were not born; and there shall ye die.
Jeremiah 22:28 Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?
Jeremiah 22:29-30 O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD. Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.
Joseph, though a descendant of David was also a descendant of Coniah.
Coniah, though a descendant of David was cursed. The curse plainly states that none of his seed would ever sit on the throne of David. So, although Joseph's ancestry can be traced to David it was cursed because of Coniah. If Christ was born of Josiah he would be ineligible to sit on the the throne of David because of ancestry of Joseph coming through Coniah. This is another important reason for the virgin birth.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
It appears to me that once again there is no evidence that I can find that would support the claim that no descendant of Jehoiakim of Judah could not sit on the throne. Adam Clarke simply states that the passage implies that Jehoiakin would have no successor. That would take into account his immediate family, his personal sons. Nothing is said or implied about any and all physical ties in subsequent generations whatsoever. God did say in the next verse He was going to punish his seed and servants as well, but his does not mean that ‘all his posterity and their servants for ever.’ If one servant or one of his seed was punished this prophesy would have been fulfilled. IF God would so desire to extend it to ‘whomsoever’ He indeed could, but just from this passage, no absolute and all encompassing judgment can be assumed or implied.
We have irrefutable proof that indeed one related to David and also to King Jehoiakim was indeed a rightful heir to the throne, the man Christ Jesus. The genealogy of Christ in both Matt. And Luke states clearly that Christ was the rightful heir, in spite of any curse mentioned in Jeremiah. This is all the proof that is needed to understand that God in no way extended that curse to all of the posterity of King Jehoiakim.
The phraseology used in Haggai 2:23 concerning the 'signet ring' implies that the curse was lifted. It is said that such a position is in clear agreement with Jewish tradition that indeed the curse had been lifted from future descendants. There are numerous notations in Judaic literature that clearly note that the curse of Jeconiah was indeed annulled. Clearly God has repented more than once from curses upon men for various reasons.
Here is one such remark in Rabbinic literature:
We have irrefutable proof that indeed one related to David and also to King Jehoiakim was indeed a rightful heir to the throne, the man Christ Jesus. The genealogy of Christ in both Matt. And Luke states clearly that Christ was the rightful heir, in spite of any curse mentioned in Jeremiah. This is all the proof that is needed to understand that God in no way extended that curse to all of the posterity of King Jehoiakim.
The phraseology used in Haggai 2:23 concerning the 'signet ring' implies that the curse was lifted. It is said that such a position is in clear agreement with Jewish tradition that indeed the curse had been lifted from future descendants. There are numerous notations in Judaic literature that clearly note that the curse of Jeconiah was indeed annulled. Clearly God has repented more than once from curses upon men for various reasons.
Here is one such remark in Rabbinic literature:
"R. Joshua ben Levi, however, argued as follows: Repentance sets aside the entire decree, and prayer half the decree. You find that it was so with Jeconiah, king of Judah. For the Holy One, blessed be He, swore in His anger, As I live, saith the Lord, though Coniah the son of Jehoiakhim king of Judah were the signet on a hand, yet by My right - note, as R. Meir said, that is was by His right hand that God swore - I would pluck thee hence (Jer. 22:24). And what was decreed against Jeconiah? That he die childless. As is said Write ye this man childless (Jer. 22:40). But as soon as he avowed penitence, the Holy One, blessed be He, set aside the decree, as is shown by Scripture's reference to The sons of Jeconiah - the same is Assir - Shealtiel his son, etc. (1 Chron 3:17). And Scripture says further: In that day . . . will I take thee, O Zerubbabel . . . the son of Shealtiel . . . and will make thee as a signet (Haggai 2:23). Behold, then, how penitence can set aside the entire decree!
Pesikta Rabbati, Piska 47, translated by William G. Braude, Yale University Press, pg. 797-798
Pesikta Rabbati, Piska 47, translated by William G. Braude, Yale University Press, pg. 797-798
savedbymercy
New Member
A woman by nature is unclean Job 14:1-4
1Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble.
2He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.
3And doth thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me into judgment with thee?
4Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.
Now Mary, the Mother if Christ was unclean, but yet scripture says that Christ was made of a woman Gal 4:4
4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
But woman by nature scripture says is unclean. That word unclean Job 14:4 is the hebrew word tame' and means:
unclean, impure
a) ethically and religiously
b) ritually
c) of places
It is also translated defiled, polluted, pollution !
Now Christ, being born of a woman, yes a sinful woman as mary, it would have been needful for Him to be protected from contracting any of her pollution of which she is by nature even as the man is ! Her blood is as polluted as the mans blood, of which made it necessary for Him to be born of a Virgin and not a Natural Man ! If the Lord Jesus Christ received any part of His Being from Mary, then consequently He received of the same substance and inherent qualities that mary had, and this was sinful, for mary by nature was depraved and dead in trespasses and sins, and so consequently, if Jesus received from her anything that she had, He would also be a sinner as though He had a natural sinful father. Christ could not have received His Blood from Mary, her blood would have been polluted. You can call this mystical if you like, but nevertheless all this had spiritual significance, else it would not have mattered in the first place if Christ had natural parents as all others !
1Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble.
2He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.
3And doth thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me into judgment with thee?
4Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.
Now Mary, the Mother if Christ was unclean, but yet scripture says that Christ was made of a woman Gal 4:4
4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
But woman by nature scripture says is unclean. That word unclean Job 14:4 is the hebrew word tame' and means:
unclean, impure
a) ethically and religiously
b) ritually
c) of places
It is also translated defiled, polluted, pollution !
Now Christ, being born of a woman, yes a sinful woman as mary, it would have been needful for Him to be protected from contracting any of her pollution of which she is by nature even as the man is ! Her blood is as polluted as the mans blood, of which made it necessary for Him to be born of a Virgin and not a Natural Man ! If the Lord Jesus Christ received any part of His Being from Mary, then consequently He received of the same substance and inherent qualities that mary had, and this was sinful, for mary by nature was depraved and dead in trespasses and sins, and so consequently, if Jesus received from her anything that she had, He would also be a sinner as though He had a natural sinful father. Christ could not have received His Blood from Mary, her blood would have been polluted. You can call this mystical if you like, but nevertheless all this had spiritual significance, else it would not have mattered in the first place if Christ had natural parents as all others !
You are clearly and explicitly teaching that Jesus Christ had no physiological connection with humanity but was purely and totally an alien creation by God in the womb of Mary.
In essence this is exactly what the Gnostics taught in the first and second century. They denied that Christ had any physiological connection with humanity but merely indwelt the physical body of Jesus because they regarded any physiological material connection with humanity as impure and defiling.
Your doctrine in essence is one and the same with Gnosticism that is repudiated by John in 1 John 4:2-4.
The rational error of the Gnostics is the same rational error you are presenting. You believe that sinfulness exists in the physical blood of Mary and Joseph as much as in the physical material body of Mary and Joseph and so Christ to be sinless could not have been a partaker of "flesh and blood" AS the children were partakers of "flesh and blood" for which he came to save:
14 ¶ Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
However, sin is not in the blood or the material flesh of man but in the "seed" of man not the "seed" of the woman. This is seen in all the Old Testament geneologies as they list only the men repeatedly followed by the words "and he died." No women in these DEATH genealogies because it was the man's "seed" wherein the sin nature was passed down.
You are a heretic and you teach many heresies and you will not stop teaching them because your conscience has been "seared" by demonic doctrines (1 Tim. 4:1-2).
savedbymercy
New Member
bib
No I am not. He was Human as any other Human but without sin, which you are on the verge of teaching if you continue in your error of Jesus taking part of mary's blood !
No I am not. He was Human as any other Human but without sin, which you are on the verge of teaching if you continue in your error of Jesus taking part of mary's blood !
savedbymercy
New Member
bib
But Christ did partake of Flesh and Blood [ Heb 2:14], but not that of sinful mary and Joseph.
Now if there is not in some way before the Eyes of God, some type of sinfulness in natural generation, why did God have Jesus born without a Natural Father ? Please answer that wise guy ! Paul spoke of sin in the flesh, please explain that also wise guy, the biblicists lol..
Explain Rom 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing
But Christ did partake of Flesh and Blood [ Heb 2:14], but not that of sinful mary and Joseph.
Now if there is not in some way before the Eyes of God, some type of sinfulness in natural generation, why did God have Jesus born without a Natural Father ? Please answer that wise guy ! Paul spoke of sin in the flesh, please explain that also wise guy, the biblicists lol..
Explain Rom 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing
savedbymercy
New Member
bib
Your teaching derives its understanding from the early church heresy of Edward Irving.
http://www.pneumafoundation.org/res...dale-EdwardIrvingIncarnationalChristology.pdf
This heresy primarily rationalizes that for in order for Christ to have really Identify with man, He must have assumed a sinful nature. The difference being that he understood that mary's nature was sinful, and you do not. You believe that because Jesus did not have a human father, that being born of a human sinful mother and partake of her substances is ok. You speak as if mary had no sinful nature like joseph. Mr Irving, though heretical, is more honset than yours, he obviously realizes the sinfulness of mary , where as you do not !
Your teaching derives its understanding from the early church heresy of Edward Irving.
http://www.pneumafoundation.org/res...dale-EdwardIrvingIncarnationalChristology.pdf
This heresy primarily rationalizes that for in order for Christ to have really Identify with man, He must have assumed a sinful nature. The difference being that he understood that mary's nature was sinful, and you do not. You believe that because Jesus did not have a human father, that being born of a human sinful mother and partake of her substances is ok. You speak as if mary had no sinful nature like joseph. Mr Irving, though heretical, is more honset than yours, he obviously realizes the sinfulness of mary , where as you do not !
Does this verse mean nothing to you?
Jeremiah 22:30 Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.
It doesn't matter who you quote. None of his seed--forever--would sit on the throne of David. The verse is as clear as the zit on your nose, the fly on your sandwich, the cobweb in your kitchen, and all the other obvious things you see.
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That question has been answered over and over and over and you are still blind as a bat to the answer. The sin nature comes through the seed of the man not the woman. The geneologies show that death comes through man to man not the woman. Jesus was born of "her seed" not HIS seed.
God has hidden the simple things from heretics!!! The sin in the "flesh" in Romans 7:18 refers to indwelling sin that comes by way of the seed of man not woman!!!!!!
So simple and yet you are so blind!
savedbymercy
New Member
bib
I know where it comes from, and mary had one, and she as a woman was unclean
Job 14:4
Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. If Christ partook of mary's flesh and blood, He may as well partook of Josephs, both were sinners !
Mary had sinful flesh as did Paul Rom 7:18
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
You are guilty of saying that Christ was given sinful flesh if He was not protected from it, for being in mary !
I know where it comes from, and mary had one, and she as a woman was unclean
Job 14:4
Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. If Christ partook of mary's flesh and blood, He may as well partook of Josephs, both were sinners !
Mary had sinful flesh as did Paul Rom 7:18
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
You are guilty of saying that Christ was given sinful flesh if He was not protected from it, for being in mary !
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savedbymercy
New Member
bib
Next time you take your communion do not forget to Thank your god for the Body and Blood of mary !
Jn 6:55
For my flesh[I received from mary] is meat indeed, and my blood[I received from mary] is drink indeed.
Next time you take your communion do not forget to Thank your god for the Body and Blood of mary !
Jn 6:55
For my flesh[I received from mary] is meat indeed, and my blood[I received from mary] is drink indeed.
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