Featured Was Judas Born-Again and Then Lost?

I don't know if this will help, but throughout Scripture the audience addressed excludes a portion. Think of Paul addressing congregational, even as some there would prove unfaithful. Or of Israel, knowing with hindsight that the message was for a smaller group ("true Israel").

Pastors today do the same. They address a congregation in a way that assumes all are saved while knowing some are not.

 

I agree that the language is important. I think there is a danger of a false sense of salvation with "once saved always saved" (I do believe that once we are saved we are always saved).

Often being saved points to a future state (those who are saved pointing to a salvation to come).

"Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

The way I read the passage above is that in the regeneration, when Christ sits on the throne of His glory, you (those of the 12) who have followed Him will also sit on twelve thrones.

This would exclude Judas as he did not follow.

Where you read "you who have followed" to mean followed up till now I read it as those who have followed when Christ sits on the throne of His glory.

 

The language is very important. That said, we also have to be careful not to pick apart passages from the context to argue tenses. This was not a thesis to be graded but a word to the Disciples.

And it still should be past tense. We just disagree about where that tense is applied (past tense from now or from "that Day").

Example: of you running this race, those who will have crossed the line without turning back will recieve a prize. The "will have" is still past tense but ast tense to crossing the line.

We just disagree, brother. I do understand where you are coming from and I get your objection. I merely wanted to explain how I understand the verses as it is important to how I understand salvation in the present as it relates to a future state.

 

12 Disciples or 12 thrones?

 

I understand it as 12 thrones over the 12 tribes of Israel and symbolic of God's people as a whole. I do not believe the Church (or even the Jewish Christians) will literally be divided into 12 separate groups.

 

I disagree that Jesus is including Judas. I believe He is talking to the group collectively, not necessarily speaking to each one individually, as He knew Judas was the "son of predition".

Literally, I believe Jesus was speaking to the 12 as a teacher speaks to a class or a pastor to congregation. And I view the emphasis to be on "that Day" rather than an immediate promise or guarantee to the whole.

I'm not a botanist (I do not grow tulips or daiseys) .