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Washington Death Penalty Suspended By Governor Jay Inslee

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Bro. Curtis

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Jesus acknowledges the death penalty is from his father in John 19;11.

Paul did likewise in Acts 25;11.

The thieves on their crosses confess the punishment was just in Luke 24;31.

Romans 13 tells us that when governments do not use capital punishment evil reigns and equity vanishes.
 

Alcott

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Executions in our system cost more than keeping the person in prison for the rest of their life.

This unfortunately is true. It is just as plain that, for death penalty opponents, it is an argument of their own creation. And it comes down to non-issue of life in prion being a longer form of the death penalty, as either way the convicted is bound without freedom while awaiting death. The difference comes down to how many years a prisoner has to escape-- which may could be none in the current system; that is, many years either way to escape, and the difference being perhaps none.
 
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church mouse guy

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This unfortunately is true. It is just as plain that, for death penalty opponents, it is an argument of their own creation. And it comes down to non-issue of life in prion being a longer form of the death penalty, as either way the convicted is bound without freedom while awaiting death. The difference comes down to how many years a prisoner has to escape-- which may could be none in the current system; that is, many years either way to escape, and the difference being perhaps none.

CBT never quotes any Scripture on this subject.

CBT has been posting his own personal opinion for weeks, over and over, on this subject.

CBT never address the point that the cost of executions is connected to the endless appeals filed by taxpayer-paid public defenders, who only earn government money when they are filing appeals. We have a murderer on Death Row since 1989 in Indiana. Is that justice?

CBT has refused to answer questions about the execution of German Nazi SS-Obersturmbannfuhrer Adolf Eichmann, a mastermind of the Nazi concentration camps who was responsible for the deaths of millions of people. Eichmann was executed for crimes against humanity on May 31, 1962.

Apparently CBT would not even execute mass murderers.

CBT has no Scripture to justify the opinion that his human brain has given him. It is CBT against Scripture.

Take you pick, Alcott.
 

Don

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Technically, you're only partially correct. It's not the executions that cost more than keeping the person in prison; it's the automatic appeals, separate prison arrangements for those on death row, etc., etc.

And I do not believe that is going to change.
As Alcott points out above, that is a problem of your own making.


Prison's not supposed to be a nice place. It's supposed to be a place that people want to avoid, to the point of curbing their behavior so that they won't go there. And yet, our prisons are full.

I agree and that is why life without parole is worse than being executed.

It does say something about our society that we have more people per capita in prison than any country in the world. The majority are in prison for nonviolent crimes. Maybe we need to rethink nonviolent crime and incarceration. Could be an interesting thread.

I do not remember Christ speaking about prison.

So you're okay with a lifetime of suffering and misery--which also applies to those who *might* be wrongfully imprisoned.

A lifetime of suffering and misery.

I have a newfound insight as to your character, CTB. And for all this "grace" and "mercy" that you preach, indicating that you have a better insight into Christ's teachings than those who are "pro-death" ... well, let's just call you "pro-torture."
 

Crabtownboy

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So you're okay with a lifetime of suffering and misery--which also applies to those who *might* be wrongfully imprisoned.

For those who are innocent it is better as they may be found to be innocent and released later .... as has over 100 people through DNA testing.

Do you say it would have been better to execute them, though they were innocent?



 
I see both sides of this argument. The death penalty does work. It does reduce crime, but would be much more affective if it was timelier. And it should of course be cheaper. There are innocents executed, but many more innocents that become victims. It is an easy choice when you don’t know any of the dead, kill 8-10 innocents to save 8-10 thousand, but when it is someone you know it is much harder.

Here is my solution. If ever elected to congress I will submit a bill for this, that scenario is unlikely, but here goes:

We FEDERALIZE the execution process. Yea I know, I am among the strongest for limiting the federal government, but stick with me.

We are not talking about taking anything away from the state. The state still convicts and sentences the criminal to death. We keep that exactly the same as it is now. (For federal crimes of course the federal government convicts and sentences).

BUT, once the criminal is sentenced to death they are immediately transferred to a federal facility. No more state “death rows.” No more state “old sparky” or other execution methods, it is all done by the federal government.

The federal government then establishes a federal “death court.” All appeals and all reviews under the current system are eliminated. The individual governors can retain the ability to pardon, but once the death sentence is handed down the case is immediately reviewed by the federal death court. No sense wasting time with intermediate steps, each case goes straight to the top.

For up to six months after sentencing the convicted criminal’s case can be reviewed by the death court. This court would have access to all modern review ability including their own DNA lab and forensic scientists. If they can find evidence of doubt the sentence (not the conviction) is suspended and the case referred back to the state of origination. If after six months extraordinary circumstances call for a delay they can ask for a 3 month delay from the court. Barring that, 6 months after sentencing, unless returned to the state, the execution is carried out by the federal government.

Each convict gets a high level review and access to the latest technology. Each victim gets justice in a timely manner. The states don’t have to carry the cost of housing and executing the criminals. The nation gets a uniform application of the death penalty. I don’t see a looser under this proposal unless it is the guilty criminal.

I do understand the states reluctance to give up the execution to the federal government. The federal government has destroyed everything else it has ever touched so I am sure they would find a way to mess this up as well. If we did not hold to the six month rule then we could end up with huge federal costs and backlogs. The sentence of death would still be given out by the state so I don’t see how the federal government could mess that up, but I am sure they would find a way.

Anyway, what other problems do you see?
 

church mouse guy

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We don't need to federalize anything. Indiana is perfectly capable of dealing with people who commit crimes in Indiana. What we need is for the Great Gov. Mike Pence to institute reform in the Indiana law to allow for a time limit on appeals, but Gov. Pence is too busy keeping taxes high and running for President.

Scripture calls for the death penalty for attacking the image of God. People think that they know better and are ignoring Scripture. CBT says that the commandment against murder does not apply to the unborn child so you can see what the secular humanists have in mind for us.
 

Revmitchell

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CBT says that the commandment against murder does not apply to the unborn child so you can see what the secular humanists have in mind for us.

He also says that the child is not alive until its born. He also decried back ally abortions in a very odd way to defend PP. But he then tries to convince us that he oppose abortions.


Believe him if you want too.
 

Don

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For those who are innocent it is better as they may be found to be innocent and released later .... as has over 100 people through DNA testing.

Do you say it would have been better to execute them, though they were innocent?

Are you really saying that causing someone 50 or more years of suffering and misery is your preferred choice?
 

Crabtownboy

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Are you really saying that causing someone 50 or more years of suffering and misery is your preferred choice?

My choice and intent is that no falsely convicted person be executed. Where a system is devised whereby it is 100% certain that no innocent person will be executed, then I will reconsider my stance.
 

church mouse guy

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My choice and intent is that no falsely convicted person be executed. Where a system is devised whereby it is 100% certain that no innocent person will be executed, then I will reconsider my stance.

Unfortunately for you, you have no Scripture to back up your personal thinking. You repeat yourself on this issue constantly and never answer any questions. For example, you cannot show where Jesus overthrew the Law in the case of the Law given to Noah:

Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
 

Inspector Javert

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those convicted, but are innocent?

There have been no proven cases of any innocent man wrongfully executed...at minimum, not in the last 70 years.
I repeat that....ZERO
those convicted unjustly?
that is the same question you asked above. The answer is, that scenario does not exist.
those guilty, but not punished justly?
What does that mean?
To me, that means a murderer who is not, in fact, executed.
To you, I imagine it means something ENTIRELY different.
those convicted and sentenced to death primarily because of race?
those convicted but not sentenced to death because of race?
There is no racial or racist disparity:

That is a liberal canard..........actually.......if by that you mean:
The PROVABLE FACT that a white person, for instance is more likely to get the death penalty in a murder case than a black person, you would be correct, there is actually a higher percentages of whites who are sentenced to death for murder than blacks........

But, it has nothing to do with his race.

It invariably has to do with completely different issues, such as:

1.)the greater likelihood of having actually raped, killed and eaten their victims, as opposed to having simply gunned-down a fellow drug-dealer in a drive-by
2.)or the chances that the victim is a minor,
3.)or the chances that the killer is a serial killer rather than a one-time killer.

(That would be white persons, hence, higher percentages of death penalties)

but, that's not what you were referring to.
You were referring to a classic liberal fantasy about racial injustice which cares absolutely nothing about facts.
 
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Crabtownboy

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There have been no proven cases of any innocent man wrongfully executed...at minimum, not in the last 70 years.
I repeat that....ZERO


Not true as I posted links to articles on several who were later shown to be innocent.




There is no racial or racist disparity:
Oh, that race comes into sentencing has been known and proven for a very long time.


The PROVABLE FACT that a white person, for instance is more likely to get the death penalty in a murder case than a black person, you would be correct, there is actually a higher percentages of whites who are sentenced to death for murder than blacks........

Simply not true:

Racial discrimination remains a dominant feature of criminal justice in the United States and Alabama. More than half of the 3170 people on death row nationwide are people of color; 42% are African American. Prominent researchers have demonstrated that a defendant is more likely to get the death penalty if the victim is white than if the victim is black. The key decision makers in death penalty cases across the country are almost exclusively white. Despite decades of evidence showing that the administration of the death penalty is permeated with racial bias, courts and legislatures’ refusal to address race in any comprehensive way reveals a fundamental flaw in America’s justice system.

Each year in Alabama, nearly 65% of all murders involve black victims, yet 80% of the people currently awaiting execution in Alabama were convicted of crimes in which the victims were white. Only 6% of all murders in Alabama involve black defendants and white victims, but over 60% of black death row prisoners have been sentenced for killing someone white.

http://www.eji.org/deathpenalty/racialbias

Direct Racial Discrimination
Key findings:

There is evidence of direct racial discrimination (against minority defendants in sentencing outcomes);
Evidence of direct discrimination at the federal level is more prominent than at the state level;
Blacks are more likely to be disadvantaged in terms of sentence length at the federal level, whereas Latinos are more likely to be disadvantaged in terms of the decision to incarcerate;
At the state level, both Latinos and blacks are far more likely to be disadvantaged in the decision to incarcerate or not, as opposed to the decision regarding sentence length.


http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/reports/racial-disparity-sentencing

 

Don

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My choice and intent is that no falsely convicted person be executed. Where a system is devised whereby it is 100% certain that no innocent person will be executed, then I will reconsider my stance.

In the meantime, your preference is to subject them to years and years and years of misery and suffering.

If you won't admit it to us, at least admit it to yourself.
 

Crabtownboy

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In the meantime, your preference is to subject them to years and years and years of misery and suffering.

If you won't admit it to us, at least admit it to yourself.

It leaves open the chance that an innocent person will gain their freedom. I am siding on the side of the rare but real folk who are innocent.

Do you admit that you would rather the innocent be executed?

 

Inspector Javert

Active Member
Oh, that race comes into sentencing has been known and proven for a very long time.
You are trying to substitute that sentence lengths etc.... for a bias in the Death Penalty....that is dishonest. We are not talking about a supposed disparity in overall sentencing, we are talking about the DEATH penalty.

Your own quotes prove my point!
This is the statement I made:
The PROVABLE FACT that a white person, for instance is more likely to get the death penalty in a murder case than a black person, you would be correct, there is actually a higher percentages of whites who are sentenced to death for murder than blacks........
And now your quote:
Each year in Alabama, nearly 65% of all murders involve black victims, yet 80% of the people currently awaiting execution in Alabama were convicted of crimes in which the victims were white. Only 6% of all murders in Alabama involve black defendants and white victims, but over 60% of black death row prisoners have been sentenced for killing someone white.
I am fully aware of the likelihood of receiving the Death penalty for killing a white person for a black person, but, why, pray tell, don't they simply prove racial bias by offer the percentage of over-all black murderers vs. overall white murderers who are on Death row?

Because it doesn't fool people into thinking there is racial bias. In fact, it's blindingly obvious that race is not the issue.

Here's the fact:
The murderer of a Black person is MORE LIKELY TO BE BLACK than not:
And the Murderer of a White person is MORE LIKELY TO BE WHITE than not:

So, again, the short and salient point behind this is:
1.) white people kill white people
2.) black people kill black people.

Hence, since whites are MORE LIKELY to RECEIVE a death penalty than a black person, racial hucksters instead give you the awkward stat about what the VICTIMS race is in order to fool the insufferably stupid into assuming that there is less value in a black victim than a white victim....

You see, CTB: if you were to simply show the percentage of white murderers on death row vs. the percentage of black murderers on death row, it would embarrass race hucksters who want to confuse and distort....

Instead they give these stupid insinuations about the VICTIMS race....
You see, if there were an EQUALITY of white murderers on death row as black murderers... (by percentage).............than your statistic would supposedly demonstrate that the justice system places "more value" on a black victim than a white victim:

This is why it is false that "numbers speak for themselves". They do nothing of the sort.

Now, let's guess CTB if those stats were reversed what would liars and race hucksters then feed us as the salient point? Would they attempt to insinuate that the justice system places more value on the life of a black victim than a white victim?? No.....it'd be something they ignore....

Instead they would continually feed us the statistic that a black murderer is more likely to get the death penalty than a white murderer....

So, anyone who wants to prove "racism" can use relevant stats to prove their point EITHER WAY.

Because the reasons aren't racially charged:
It's the simple fact that whites are more likely to be crazy rape, kidnap, murder and eat the victim-types, and deranged multiple serial murderers which is rarer in the black communities...

Also, whites are more likely to have killed minors and other similarly completely innocent victims than black murderers
I.O.W.....whites are more likely to commit the more heinous murders (and subsequently receive a death penalty) than blacks....Hence, more whites on Death row by percentage.

That's what the stats tell us, CTB:

You are as easy to confuse and deceive as any liberal ever is.

Here's your next red-herring:
There is evidence of direct racial discrimination (against minority defendants in sentencing outcomes);
Evidence of direct discrimination at the federal level is more prominent than at the state level;
Blacks are more likely to be disadvantaged in terms of sentence length at the federal level, whereas Latinos are more likely to be disadvantaged in terms of the decision to incarcerate;
At the state level, both Latinos and blacks are far more likely to be disadvantaged in the decision to incarcerate or not, as opposed to the decision regarding sentence length.


Point 1.) :sleep:

Point 2.) This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the DEATH penalty.....nothing.
You are conflating sentence lengths and decision to incarcerate with Death sentencing.....they have nothing to do with one another.
 
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Crabtownboy

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I asked a few pages ago, are you still saying Christ ended the death penalty ?

Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
Go the extra mile
Turn the other cheek
Be ye kind one to another
Let him without sin cast the first stone

Show me where Christ says it is all right to have a flawed system whereby an innocent person may be executed.
 

Don

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It leaves open the chance that an innocent person will gain their freedom. I am siding on the side of the rare but real folk who are innocent.

Do you admit that you would rather the innocent be executed?


You've never been institutionalized, CTB. I've come close, due to deployments.

So if I were innocent, but facing the choice between execution or life in prison--I personally would be hard-pressed NOT to choose the execution.

How many sentenced to death opt for a speedy execution, refusing appeal? How many on death row commit suicide? Why do you think that is?

No, CTB; for all your talk of mercy and "possible innocence," all you're really doing--by your own admission--is promoting a continuing life of misery and suffering.

Where in scripture does it tell us to wish that upon anyone? How does that make us Christ-like, or sgow His mercy and grace?
 
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