Were they really saved?

[xdisciplex]

I have to wonder if, by that logic, those who feel a bit of fear while being tortured before they're martyred will wind up in Hell. "The fearful" are on that list, too, remember?

Michael

Good point. But I bet that hbsmn and sfic also have no fear because they trust God completely. A christian who trusts God completely knows no fear at all. raying:

 

[Claudia_T]

Good point. But I bet that hbsmn and sfic also have no fear because they trust God completely. A christian who trusts God completely knows no fear at all. raying:

I cant speak for either of them but I dont think they are trying to say they are sinless. No need to take what they say to the extreme.

 

[xdisciplex]

I cant speak for either of them but I dont think they are trying to say they are sinless. No need to take what they say to the extreme.

This is also not the point but since the fearful are on the list, too, it means that being fearful is also one of the sins which fall into the murder category and this means that if somebody dies and is scared at the same moment then he goes to hell because this is such a terrible sin and he couldn't repent anymore.
Sfic will have to agree with me on this one if he really sticks to his views.

 

[Claudia_T]

This is also not the point but since the fearful are on the list, too, it means that being fearful is also one of the sins which fall into the murder category and this means that if somebody dies and is scared at the same moment then he goes to hell because this is such a terrible sin and he couldn't repent anymore.
Sfic will have to agree with me on this one if he really sticks to his views.

I see what you mean...

but just as a side note, what do you think of the time when Jesus was about to to go the Cross and He prayed to God to spare Him from it? He talked about God sparing Him from having to drink this bitter cup..

(cant locate the scripture right now, but Im sure you know which one Im talking about)


Claudia

 

[xdisciplex]

You mean wether Jesus was scared?

If being scared is a sin then he cannot have been scared then he was most likely only depressed or grieved.

 

[Claudia_T]

You mean wether Jesus was scared?

If being scared is a sin then he cannot have been scared then he was most likely only depressed or grieved.

I dont know actually, the thought just cross my mind that He wasnt exactly wanting to have to go to the Cross... at least it seems that way.

I know it couldnt of been a "sin"... because Jesus never sinned... but Im just thinking of not wanting to be a martyr if there are some reasons that could be acceptable to God?


Mt:26:39: And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Know ye <eido> not <ou> that <hoti> ye are <este> the temple <naos> of God <theos>, and <kai> that the Spirit <pneuma> of God <theos> dwelleth <oikeo> in <en> you <humin>? If any man <ei tis> defile <phtheiro> the temple <naos> of God <theos>, him <touton> shall <phtheiro> God <theos> destroy <phtheiro>; for <gar> the temple <naos> of God <theos> is <esti> holy <hagios>, which <hostis> temple ye <humeis> are <este>.

Isn't man defiling the body, the temple of God when he commits suicide? God said He would destroy such an one.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath <lambano> no <ou> temptation <peirasmos> taken <lambano> you <humas> but <ei me> such as is common to man <anthropinos>: but <de> God <theos> is faithful <pistos>, who <hos> will <eao> not <ou> suffer <eao> you <humas> to be tempted <peirazo> above <huper> that <hos> ye are able <dunamai>; but <alla> will <poieo> with <sun> the temptation <peirasmos> also <kai> make <poieo> a way to escape <ekbasis>, that ye <humas> may be able <dunamai> to bear <hupophero> it.

If God allows so much on a Christian that that Christian commits suicide, then this verse is a lie. For He promised He would not allow more than we are able to bear.

Where is the faith in Christ?

 

[Claudia_T]

Isn't man defiling the body, the temple of God when he commits suicide? God said He would destroy such an one.



If God allows so much on a Christian that that Christian commits suicide, then this verse is a lie. For He promised He would not allow more than we are able to bear.

Where is the faith in Christ?

2Tm:1:7: For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

 

[xdisciplex]

If God allows so much on a Christian that that Christian commits suicide, then this verse is a lie. For He promised He would not allow more than we are able to bear.

Where is the faith in Christ?

Yes exactly. Where is the faith? Where is your faith when you sin?
The bible also tells us that nobody has to sin because God always also offers a way out. Or do you not sin?

@ claudia

I think in this scene you simply see that Jesus was also human and the thought of what he had to go through totally dragged him down.
I also heard that Jesus was about to die in the garden and this is why he prayed because he feared that he could not fulfill the mission because his body was dying (sweating of blood) and then the angel came and gave him new strength. This is just an opinion and I cannot say if it's true or not but the strain for his body must have been enormous. Imagine this. When you sweat blood then it has to be an enormous strain.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

As to the Christian having fear just before death, I am not sure he will. We have a promise in God's Word that the child of God does not feel the sting of death. We have an assurance that there is no grave that will hold our bodies down if we are of Christ.

Of course, the ones who are not of Christ will rise from their graves as well, but that will be 1,000 years after the resurrection of God's children. And the lost will only be raised to be judged and cast into that lake of fire.

 

[xdisciplex]

As to the Christian having fear just before death, I am not sure he will.

You're not sure if being scared before dying sends a christian to hell or not?

You have a very strange picture of God. *shiver*

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

I also heard that Jesus was about to die in the garden and this is why he prayed because he feared that he could not fulfill the mission because his body was dying (sweating of blood) and then the angel came and gave him new strength. This is just an opinion and I cannot say if it's true or not but the strain for his body must have been enormous. Imagine this. When you sweat blood then it has to be an enormous strain.

Dying in the garden? Impossible! He had previously told the disciples that He would go to Jerusalem and there He would be crucified. He knew He could not die in the Garden. He knew the cross was the means of His death.

 

[Gershom]

Today is my birthday (thanx BB for the e-mail:wavey: ), and the party was yesterday, so I didn't have tome to get back to the other thread. I had no idea it would max out in that time.


In that case, if anybody who ever sinned still gets to Heaven, we must be teaching people can do as they please. OF course not! 2 Cor.5:19: "To know, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation". That is based on faith, not good deeds. All three of you (SFIC, HBSMN, Diggin) are supposed to be the more "fundamentalist" type (traditional music only, no alcohol, etc), but you are denying the fundamental point of the Gospel and sounding like the Catholics or Campbellists.
You are taking one or two verses, and basically holding them in opposition to the rest of the scriptures, which qualify WHO in the end gets CHARGED as a "murderer". We give you these scriptures and their principles, and you ignore them and just repeat your prooftexts (and your assertion, like it were a 'given') as if we never responded.

Uh, only SOME are going to the lake of fire! The rest were forgiven, as the verse above shows. Else, David, Paul, and every other Christian who even had so much as a hateful thought (all of us, really) are going too. The only difference, which becomes this new criteria you try to add, is they they will not be a live to make a specific prayer of repentance. But then, that is not what saves a person who has already accepted Christ, is it? I remember arguing this point with the Orthodox and Campbellists who were proselytizing here last year, insisting you must repent of every individual sin after you commit it to receive forgiveness, and they even tried to use 1 John 1:9 to supposedly prove that repentance and forgiveness is a one by one daily back and forth transaction. I think it should be alarming that you seem to agree with them.
And just like I asked with those other two groups, did you get every single one? IF not, then God must be letting people get away with sin, if your reasoning is correct.


:thumbs: :applause: Notice how this point was completely skipped, and people just went back to the repeated prooftexting method!

Eric B, excellent post! AMEN!

 

[xdisciplex]

I only heard this opinion.

Maybe it's bogus, I don't know. But you cannot argue that his body was under great strain. Usually you don't sweat blood.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

You're not sure if being scared before dying sends a christian to hell or not?

You have a very strange picture of God. *shiver*

I did not say that. Don't try to twist my words. What I said is this:

As to the Christian having fear just before death, I am not sure he will. We have a promise in God's Word that the child of God does not feel the sting of death. We have an assurance that there is no grave that will hold our bodies down if we are of Christ.

I do not believe a Christian will fear dying.

 

[xdisciplex]

I do not believe a Christian will fear dying.

Oh, so you simply do it the other way around. This means that if a christian fears dying then he simply wasn't a christian. :BangHead:

It's so easy, isn't it? :thumbsup:

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

I only heard this opinion.

Maybe it's bogus, I don't know. But you cannot argue that his body was under great strain. Usually you don't sweat blood.

I cannot find in the Word of God that Jesus sweat blood.

 

[xdisciplex]

I cannot find in the Word of God that Jesus sweat blood.

Now you amaze me.

Luk 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

The sweating of blood is a very serious medical condition, you can also read about it.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Now you amaze me.

Luk 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

The sweating of blood is a very serious medical condition, you can also read about it.

The twisting of Scripture is a great sin condition. You can read about that.

That passage does not say He sweat blood. The phrase 'as it were' means 'compared to', or 'like'. It does not say 'His sweat was drops of blood falling to the ground.'

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Man's humanistic philosophies and stinkin' way of thinkin' has distorted the truth of God's Holy Word so much, they have no fear of judgment for murder, they have no fear for disobeying God's Word. They are right in their own eyes.

Isaiah warned of this...

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!