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Were they really saved?

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rbell

Active Member
Diggin in da Word said:
Agree to disagree?

Where is that found in the Word? My Bible says 'Come, let us reason together...'
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Nice verse fragment and forced interpretation.
Acts 15:36-40: 36Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, "Let us go back and visit the brothers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing." 37Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, 38but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. 39They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, 40but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the brothers to the grace of the Lord.
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Later, Paul asked John Mark to join him.

Sounds like "agreeing to disagree" to me.
 
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rbell

Active Member
DITW,

I said:

so can you say with absolute certainty that there is no possibility that you are wrong regarding any Biblical or theological concept?
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And you replied,

I can be wrong, but the Bible is not.
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So then, can't it be said (I'm not asking for agreement on this subject; that won't happen) that the Bible is right...but one of our interpretations is wrong?

That is so much better than this, "You don't believe the Bible" stuff.

That is my point...

Otherwise, we'll have to agree to disagree that we can't agree to disagree about agreeing to disagree.:BangHead: :applause:
 
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Amy.G

New Member
It is amazing to me how some people can be so cold and judgemental. Mental illness is a real disease even if you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that it's not. There are all degrees of mental illness as well, from depression to bipolar disorder to schizophrenia. The brain is an organ just as is the heart or liver. Disease occurs in any organ of the body, but because mental disorders affect the mind and the thoughts it is assumed by some to just be a sign of self centeredness. I think this attitude is shameful and those that feel this way should repent quickly lest their own judgement fall back on them and they die in their sin and end up in hell.
I have agreed to disagree.
 
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tragic_pizza

New Member
Amy.G said:
It is amazing to me how some people can be so cold and judgemental. Mental illness is a real disease even if you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that it's not. There are all degrees of mental illness as well, from depression to bipolar disorder to schizophrenia. The brain is an organ just as is the heart or liver. Disease occurs in any organ of the body, but because mental disorders affect the mind and the thoughts it is assumed by some to just be a sign of self centeredness. I think this attitude is shameful and those that feel this way should repent quickly lest their own judgement fall back on them and they die in their sin and end up in hell.
I have agreed to disagree.
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Some idiot's going to say that Christians can't be mentally ill in 3... 2... 1...
 
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Eric B

Active Member
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Lagardo said:
Very good post, rbell! :thumbsup:

I notice that many of these threads are about subjects that no one is likely to change their mind on. Its worth debating though, because it can help everyone involved to learn and grow.

However, do we reach a point when all has been challenged, and all has been said, and we are left with arguing for the sake of arguing? :BangHead:

I don't know how often I find myself in these threads reaching this point and then saying something over the line to the one I am arguing with. At the time I am usually proud of a good zinger, but then later realize, "wow, that wasn't Christlike at all!"

I know we call these DEBATE forums, but is there a point where we simply need to agree to disagree?
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That's what I've been thinking, and I had been trying to wind down and take a break, after many debates that started out decent, but then got into a shouting match with one person repeating the same memorized/cut and paste responses over and over, and then think that has really proven something from the Bible, accusing you of "ignoring the Bible", and this includes with the SDA's over the OT Law, and with SFIC, HBSMN, and Diggin and others over music and alcohol; but this last issue just could not go without responding. It too was something that was not really run into the ground like other issues, but now like all the others, it just becomes a matter of

"Here, this [proof]text says this, so that settles it"

"But you are not taking it in context, and you are ignoring the rest of scripture"

No, you can't tell me anything; it says what it means, and you do not believe it".

It's actually quite discouraging in the faith, and you can see how the EOC's on the board actually tried to prey on all of this discord last year by saying if we just followed "oral tradition" and not the Bible; we wouldn't have all this mess!

It seems the entire world is like this, as I have been in political debates, and even in the Intelligent Design debate. Everyone wants to be "right" at any cost to logic and even civility, and shamefully, professing "Christians" are no "different". So before we talk about what "God's Spirit will do in the life of the believer, so he does not have to be distressed or commit any other sin", and all of that; I think we should prove it by not being so stubborn and self-righteous to judge our bretheren that way. THAT is what Christ said was the NEW sign of God's people, not handling pain a certain way!

Diggin in da Word said:
I can be wrong, but the Bible is not.

'Sanctify them through Thy Word, Thy Word is truth.'

What I gather from your posts is that 'some suicides will escape hell'.

What I gather from sfiC is that 'all murderers will have their part in the lake of fire'.

God's Word declares this as well.

Should I say you are correct concerning suicide which is self-murder when the Word clearly states otherwise?
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If you admit you can be wrong, then your interpretation of the Bible can be also. That's what the issue is. Especially when you ignore the fact that "murder" is either what someone is charged as in the end, or it can be "not counted against" them.

Claudia_T said:
Eric,

Im not trying to be sarcastic but honestly I thought we were debating a theological thing here, not trying to have a class where people wanting to commit suicide were sitting here reading what we say?

How can anyone who believes the way we do about it manage to tell someone nicely that they are going to go to hell if they dont change?seriously?

I think you are expecting too much of us
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It would be like if we were having a debate about whether or not there was a hell and if you rejected Christ are you going there?

and if you kept saying yes you will go to hell if you reject Christ but I kept telling you that you were being judgmental and people who are very sensitive about being afraid of a God who sends them to hell might read this and just go over the edge if they read what you say.

How in the world could you manage to tell anyone your views?

well thats what you are making me feel like.
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The issue is not the same as whether a person goes to Hell for rejecting Christ. The Bible clearly says that. The issue is whether certain behavior constitutes a de-facto rejection of Christ, and the Bible does not clearly say that, but you are reading it in there through generalities such as "all murders go to the lake of fire", which ignores how one ends up charged as a "murderer" as opposed to not having it counted against them; in the first place, which takes us back to quare one: rejecting Christ!
 
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Diggin in da Word

New Member
rbell said:
DITW,

I said:



And you replied,



So then, can't it be said (I'm not asking for agreement on this subject; that won't happen) that the Bible is right...but one of our interpretations is wrong?

That is so much better than this, "You don't believe the Bible" stuff.

That is my point...

Otherwise, we'll have to agree to disagree that we can't agree to disagree about agreeing to disagree.:BangHead: :applause:
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We are to rightly divide the Word of Truth. His Word says all murderers, not some. His Word says in the modern versions

Exodus 20:13 You shall not murder (ESV)

His Word says no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

Suicide is self-murder.

How can one misinterpret the clear meaning of Revelation 21:8 that says all murderers will have their part in the lake of fire.
 
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rbell

Active Member
Diggin in da Word said:
We are to rightly divide the Word of Truth. His Word says all murderers, not some. His Word says in the modern versions

Exodus 20:13 You shall not murder (ESV)

His Word says no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

Suicide is self-murder.

How can one misinterpret the clear meaning of Revelation 21:8 that says all murderers will have their part in the lake of fire.
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Because we look at the rest of Revelation 21:8 and see lots of other categories listed (that you fail to deal with)...and run it through the filter of "those who have not confessed Jesus as Lord."

Because many of us also believe that you can be a Christian, die with one unconfessed sin, and still go to heaven. God's desire? No...but I don't believe in revoked salvation.

(please, please do not accuse me of advocating sin. As I have said many times before, let us all be as repulsed by sin as God is)
 
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