What does ETERNAL mean?

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

The three clearly stated conditions of Salvation:
Repentance : Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Belief/Faith: 1Jo 3:23 ¶ And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Obedience to the end: Joh 8:31 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[RAdam]

How did the people in Luke 13 perish? A tower fell on them. Does Jesus then, using the word "likewise" (meaning in like manner), have hell in mind?

 

[DHK]

The three clearly stated conditions of Salvation:
Repentance : Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

This is not stated as a condition of salvation. In fact, not only is it pre-cross, it is relating to a specific situation.

Belief/Faith: 1Jo 3:23 ¶ And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

This speaks of a believers walk with Christ, not about salvation.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

This again is written to believers about their walk of faith.

Obedience to the end: Joh 8:31 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

As you can see by the wording of the verse this is a sign of discipleship, not if salvation.

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Be not moved away. Keep on keeping on.

 

[billwald]

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 17:2-4

"Eternal life" may refer to having personal knowledge of God and Jesus the Christ.

Why is this topic sooooooo important?

 

[Steven2006]

This thread is starting to seem eternal. :laugh:

 

[DHK]

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 17:2-4

"Eternal life" may refer to having personal knowledge of God and Jesus the Christ.

Why is this topic sooooooo important?

Why?
Do you have eternal life or not?
Is that not important to you?
What are your thoughts on eternity? Someday you will die. What then?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

In keeping with the deal I made with DHK, (although he has yet to establish that a gift cannot be conditional) I will address the word ‘eternal’ as it applies to eternal life.

Eternal is lasting in duration for ever and ever without end. In relation to salvation, eternal life is the goal, it is the promise to all believers that remain faithful and keep their first estate until the end via the help afforded by the Holy Spirit. In this life we are said to be in possession of eternal life as believers, but only in the form of ‘a hope’ and that by faith, not absolute knowledge. If we knew ‘absolutely’ how could we yet hope for its reality and culmination? In this life we walk by faith, not absolute knowledge. Absolute knowledge of our salvation is reserved until subsequent to the final judgment.

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[drfuss]

Many Christians believe that they have eternal life the moment they believe. Other Christians believe eternal life in the scriptures only refers to life after we die. Below are lists of scriptures to support both positions. I didn’t bother to type out the Eternal Life Now scriptures because I am lazy and they are well known.

Eternal Life Only in the Future

Scripture that can be used to support eternal life starting when you die include:

Mark 10:17 - The rich young man asked Jesus what to do to inherit eternal life.
Luke 10:25 - An expert of the law asked Jesus “What must I do to inherit eternal life?
Luke 18:18 - A certain ruler asked Jesus “What must I do to inherit eternal life?
Matt. 19:29 - Jesus talks about the blessings of this life and then says “and will inherit eternal life”.
Matt. 25:46 - Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
Mark 10:30 - Jesus talks about blessings in this life and then He says “in the age to come, eternal life”.
Luke 18:30 - Jesus talks about blessings in this life and then He says “and, in the age to come, eternal life”.
Romans 2:7 - “To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, he will give eternal life.”
Romans 2:21 - “….so that grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Titus 1;2 - Here Paul says “hope of eternal life” (Implies future tense).
Titus 3:7 - “so that, having been justified by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life”.
1 John 2:25 - “And this is what He promised us---even eternal life.”
Jude 21 - “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”

The above scriptures are specific about eternal life referring to the future life and not the present time.

Eternal Life Now

Scriptures that can be used to support Christians having eternal life now include:

John 3:16, 3:36, 5:39, 6:40, 6:54, 10:28, 12:25, 17;2&3
1 Tim. 1:16

These scriptures talk about Christians having eternal life.

Is there a contradiction here? I think the “Eternal Life Now” scriptures were written with the understanding that eternal life is promised in the future to those who believe; so it can be considered that they have eternal life. The “Eternal Life Only in the Future” scriptures are too specific to mean anything else.

 

[DHK]

In keeping with the deal I made with DHK, (although he has yet to establish that a gift cannot be conditional) I will address the word ‘eternal’ as it applies to eternal life.

A gift is unconditional. If you put conditions on a gift you have changed the definition of the word. When people change the definitions of words, especially words in the Bible, they have succumbed to neo-orthodoxy and have departed from the faith. [neo-orthodoxy = a new kind of that which was considered orthodox].

Eternal is lasting in duration for ever and ever without end. In relation to salvation, eternal life is the goal, it is the promise to all believers that remain faithful and keep their first estate until the end via the help afforded by the Holy Spirit.

Then it is a lie, or better put--more neo-orthodoxy. You have changed the meaning of the word to fit your own brand of theology--a departure of the faith. Eternal life is not a promise as long as you remain faithful. There are no conditions attached. Over and over the "gift of eternal life" is given in the present tense, the present continuous tense, and even relating to the past tense. Let's look at a few examples:

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
1. He HAS everlasting life--present tense. It is right now.
2. He is passed from death unto life. The action is already accomplished.
3. He shall not come into condemnation--future. In the future he will never come into condemnation for his sins--never.
How does one who believes they can lose their salvation deny these three promises? They can't unless they deny the Word of God or rationalize it away. Christ does not lie.

John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
--This well known passage we have looked at many times.
1. I give unto them eternal life. It is not will give; it is present tense.
2. They shall never perish. It is future tense. They shall never, ever perish.
3. Then the promises from the Father follow to re-emphasize what Christ has already emphasized.
Doesn't eternal mean eternal. There are no conditions put forth here.
One doesn't have to run here and there looking for them either. Each passage must be taken within its own context, and Jesus did not put any conditions on the promises that he gave. Thus the other verses that you give in other letters of the NT obviously have other meanings which I have time and again pointed out to you.

Romans 6:23 plainly says that eternal life is the gift of God. There are no conditions attached. That is what the verse says.
One poster listed 50 verses for you--all unconditional promises of eternal life.
But you have put a condition--an "IF" which is not Biblical.

In this life we are said to be in possession of eternal life as believers, but only in the form of ‘a hope’ and that by faith, not absolute knowledge.

Hope and faith are different. You confuse the two. Because of your confusion you have an unorthodox (and unbiblical) view of salvation.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
--The believer's hope is focused on the coming of Jesus Christ.
The unbeliever has no hope.

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Only a believer has hope--hope in Christ, hope in His coming.
An unbeliever must put his faith in Christ.
Faith is always predicated by absolute knowledge. It is not blind as other religions. For example, a Muslim will blow himself up because he has "faith" that he will go straight to paradise in so doing. But that is blind faith. It has no basis in fact.
Our faith is based on fact--the fact of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
Paul said about those "facts"

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
--To live the Christian life is the most miserable religion in the world if it is not based on the absolute fact of the resurrection of Christ.

If we knew ‘absolutely’ how could we yet hope for its reality and culmination? In this life we walk by faith, not absolute knowledge. Absolute knowledge of our salvation is reserved until subsequent to the final judgment.

We know absolutely because Christ was raised from the dead. We live because he lives. Look at the posted verses above. The resurrection is the cornerstone of our faith. Because he rose again we also shall rise again! To what? To life eternal!!

 

[BobRyan]

Many Christians believe that they have eternal life the moment they believe. Other Christians believe eternal life in the scriptures only refers to life after we die. Below are lists of scriptures to support both positions. I didn’t bother to type out the Eternal Life Now scriptures because I am lazy and they are well known.

Eternal Life Only in the Future

Scripture that can be used to support eternal life starting when you die include:

Mark 10:17 - The rich young man asked Jesus what to do to inherit eternal life.
Luke 10:25 - An expert of the law asked Jesus “What must I do to inherit eternal life?
Luke 18:18 - A certain ruler asked Jesus “What must I do to inherit eternal life?
Matt. 19:29 - Jesus talks about the blessings of this life and then says “and will inherit eternal life”.
Matt. 25:46 - Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
Mark 10:30 - Jesus talks about blessings in this life and then He says “in the age to come, eternal life”.
Luke 18:30 - Jesus talks about blessings in this life and then He says “and, in the age to come, eternal life”.
Romans 2:7 - “To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, he will give eternal life.”
Romans 2:21 - “….so that grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Titus 1;2 - Here Paul says “hope of eternal life” (Implies future tense).
Titus 3:7 - “so that, having been justified by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life”.
1 John 2:25 - “And this is what He promised us---even eternal life.”
Jude 21 - “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”

The above scriptures are specific about eternal life referring to the future life and not the present time.

Good point. In those contexts the definition for "eternal life" must also include the "immortal body" of 1Cor 15 and 2Cor 5. Certainly that is future.

Thus in Phil 3 Paul talks about pressing on in order to "attain to the resurrection from the dead".

But in other definitions of the term - it simply refers to the New Birth and the New Creation -- short of immortality.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Good point. In those contexts the definition for "eternal life" must also include the "immortal body" of 1Cor 15 and 2Cor 5. Certainly that is future.

Thus in Phil 3 Paul talks about pressing on in order to "attain to the resurrection from the dead".
Bob

As usual you have taken the verse out of context. Paul did not have to do anything to attain...
Why not continue to read; quote the rest of the passage

Philippians 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

 

[billwald]

>Do you have eternal life or not?
>Is that not important to you?
>What are your thoughts on eternity? Someday you will die. What then?

I trust the Creator of the Universe to do what is right. I have no thoughts on eternity. The here and now is sufficiently complex to keep me occupied. It does annoy me that I will not see my funeral but that is out of my control.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Good point. In those contexts the definition for "eternal life" must also include the "immortal body" of 1Cor 15 and 2Cor 5. Certainly that is future.

Thus in Phil 3 Paul talks about pressing on in order to "attain to the resurrection from the dead".

11 [b]in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.[/B]
12 Not that I have [b]already obtained[/b] it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of[/b] by Christ Jesus.

As usual you have taken the verse out of context. Paul did not have to do anything to attain...
Why not continue to read; quote the rest of the passage

Philippians 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Ahh you are open to looking into the actual text of scripture in this casa then!

That is Good news my friend.

7 But [b]whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss[/b] for the sake of Christ.
8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things[/b], and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
10 [b]that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings[/b], being conformed to His death;
11 [b]in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have [b]already obtained[/b] it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of[/b] by Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, [b]I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet[/b]; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
14 I [b]press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

The point remains.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

11 [b]in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.[/B]
12 Not that I have [b]already obtained[/b] it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of[/b] by Christ Jesus.

14 I [b]press on toward the goal for the prizeof the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

The point remains.

Bob

What point?
Paul, as a believer, was running a race. He was never in any danger of losing his salvation. The race was about rewards for the Christian. Run that you may obtain reward.

Jesus said: "lay your rewards up in heaven where moth and rust does not corrupt."

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: Paul, as a believer, was running a race. He was never in any danger of losing his salvation.

HP: 1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


No, Paul could not lose what he had yet to gain, but there was a distinct possibility of him not gaining the promise of eternal life he was running to achieve. It was not OSAS that kept him from being in danger of making shipwreck of the faith, but rather his utmost diligence to utilize the means God placed at his disposal to remain faithful, most if not all directly involving voluntary acts of his will in agreement to the Spirits influences. As in any race there is danger in losing. There is not even a hint that all that was involved was some loss of rewards distinct from the prize itself yet to be fulfilled. He ran carefully and deliberately to gain the reality of that for which the race is indeed ran, i.e., to gain in finality the reality and end of his hope, eternal life.

 

[Jedi Knight]

HP: 1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


No, Paul could not lose what he had yet to gain, but there was a distinct possibility of him not gaining the promise of eternal life he was running to achieve. It was not OSAS that kept him from being in danger of making shipwreck of the faith, but rather his utmost diligence to utilize the means God placed at his disposal to remain faithful, most if not all directly involving voluntary acts of his will in agreement to the Spirits influences. As in any race there is danger in losing. There is not even a hint that all that was involved was some loss of rewards distinct from the prize itself yet to be fulfilled. He ran carefully and deliberately to gain the reality of that for which the race is indeed ran, i.e., to gain in finality the reality and end of his hope, eternal life.

Nice try Pilgram! But you FAIL at looking at the whole councel of God. Did Moses go into the Promise Land after He sinned? Did he looses Heaven also? Nope! But he didn't keep His temper in check and it cost him the reward. Thus Paul had the same concern as he remembered past runners in the race that failed to obtain blessings because of failure to keep themselves in check. Moses prayed 3 times God would reverse His judgment after he was disqualified to enter the Promise Land!!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

You 'might' have a case IF, I say again, IF, Scriptures told us that Moses was a castaway..... but it does not state or imply any such thing.

 

[DHK]

You 'might' have a case IF, I say again, IF, Scriptures told us that Moses was a castaway..... but it does not state or imply any such thing.

It never says cast away from salvation. That is your very unique interpretation. The context does not allow for that interpretation.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: It never says cast away from salvation. That is your very unique interpretation. The context does not allow for that interpretation.

HP: Neither does Scripture state, imply, or give grounds for your very deterministic leaning interpretation that would eliminate ‘castaway’ from carrying the connotation of ending up making shipwreck of the faith and as such not making heaven Paul’s final eternal home. You are simply blindly driven by an unsupported presupposition of OSAS in your conclusions. If you had an ounce of fairness and reason in your comments, you would have to at least admit to the 'possibility' that it could well be speaking of being lost in the end, but no! It is your way or the highway for God and His Word. DHK is infallible in his understanding of the word 'castaway'.(and many other words as well) It is either you are correct, and that infinitely so, or it is God that is a liar.

 

[Marcia]

>Do you have eternal life or not?
>Is that not important to you?
>What are your thoughts on eternity? Someday you will die. What then?

I trust the Creator of the Universe to do what is right. I have no thoughts on eternity. The here and now is sufficiently complex to keep me occupied. It does annoy me that I will not see my funeral but that is out of my control.

Are you believer in Christ? What you post here does not sound like it. I'm wondering.