What Does Repent Mean?

[DHK]

And acts 15 they said except you be circumsized after the matter of Moses you cannot be saved
you're basically saying the same thing except you have a change of attitude or change your mind you cannot be saved.
you're saying except a man do something he cannot be saved that is not the salvation by grace of the Bible teaches

Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
--The Bible teaches that faith is not a work, unlike another poster who used to post here maintained. I didn't know that you now take his position. Faith is not a work as Paul declares in the above scripture.
Salvation is by faith and faith alone. It always has been.

You quoted scripture referencing the heretical Judaizers. What has that got to do with anything? Salvation is by faith.

 

[Iconoclast]

Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
--The Bible teaches that faith is not a work, unlike another poster who used to post here maintained. I didn't know that you now take his position. Faith is not a work as Paul declares in the above scripture.
Salvation is by faith and faith alone. It always has been.

You quoted scripture referencing the heretical Judaizers. What has that got to do with anything? Salvation is by faith.

Yes that's why it surprises me that you almost use the same language that they use as you describe what a man must do in order to be saved

 

[DHK]

Yes that's why it surprises me that you almost use the same language that they use as you describe what a man must do in order to be saved

Because the Bible uses that language:

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

 

[Internet Theologian]

That OT comparison is pretty tough to make. Israel was God's elect, God's called-out nation from the beginning.

There you go again with the 'that is the OT!' excuse again...

'Israel was God's elect...' Ya think?

'Forest? What forest? All I see are trees'! - dhk

 

[Internet Theologian]

An infant has as much power to repent as a rock does.

Which is the same power that all lost have. None.

Except in your gospel.

I suppose then in your gospel that at a certain age men and women become gods and have a power source within themselves to have supernatural faith and innate ability to spiritually repent. Correct?

 

[Iconoclast]

Because the Bible uses that language:

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

We will not talking about acts16 we were talking about the book of Acts chapter 15
They was saying except a man be circumcised after the manner of Moses you cannot be saved. You say except a man change his attitude he cannot be saved

 

[Internet Theologian]

I see jon c doulus must also agree that men and women have the same power dhk preaches them to have , so he hands the 'dislike' award lol! Roflmao

 

[DHK]

Except in your gospel.

I suppose then in your gospel that at a certain age men and women become gods and have a power source within themselves to have supernatural faith and innate ability to spiritually repent. Correct?

I wasn't aware that you were that uneducated concerning the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
There is only one gospel. I don't have one. But I will provide the Biblical gospel for your information:

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

It is a very good passage for you to commit to memory. That way you won't forget what the gospel is.
I am not certain what you believe. But it is faith in the gospel described above that saves.

 

[JonC]

I see jon c doufus must also agree that men and women have the same power dhk preaches them to have , so he hands the 'dislike' award lol! Roflmao

No, I disliked your post because there is no reason to think that DHK preaches that there is an age at which men and women become gods. Until you mentioned it, it was a quite objection to what was either a foolish interpretation of DHK's position or a childish insult. As you've extended the comment to me, I take it is is merely a childish insult. I don't mind...I just disagree. Your post was the same thing as replying with rabbit pictures...only with words. Come to think of it.....ahhh....nevermind. RoflmaoRoflmao

 

[Internet Theologian]

I wasn't aware that you were that uneducated concerning the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I have not nearly plumbed it's depths but I know when one is unorthodox which is why I commented against yours.

There is only one gospel. I don't have one.

Oh, but you certainly do have one. Paul referred to this Gospel as his, 2 Timothy 2:8; Romans 2:16, 16:25. Whatever we preach, that is, whatever the contents of our message may be, that is our Gospel. Consequently then I am commenting on what you teach here.

 

[DHK]

We will not talking about acts16 we were talking about the book of Acts chapter 15
They was saying except a man be circumcised after the manner of Moses you cannot be saved. You say except a man change his attitude he cannot be saved

What does it mean to believe in Christ?
It means to change your mind or attitude about Christ. Once you did not believe that He could save you or that you would submit to Him as Lord. Now you have a change of mind, and believe on Him as Savior and Lord. That is both putting your faith and trust and Christ, and the definition of repentance at the same time.
How you want to draw the Judaizers into that or this discussion I don't know how or why. I wasn't discussing them. You were. They are a non sequitor as far as I am concerned. The Judaizers were not interested in repentance.

 

[Internet Theologian]

No, I disliked your post because there is no reason to think that DHK preaches that there is an age at which men and women become gods. Until you mentioned it, it was a quite objection to what was either a foolish interpretation of DHK's position or a childish insult. As you've extended the comment to me, I take it is is merely a childish insult. I don't mind...I just disagree. It's the same thing as replying with rabbit pictures. Come to think of it.....ahhh....nevermind. Roflmao

There was absolute reason to say what I stated or I would not have bothered to say it. Your reaction is what is childish, and you continue that path above.

My point is that no person has power to repent, thus my response. In another thread your friend dhk preached that with men, concerning salvation, 'it isn't impossible but it is difficult' so you have to know the history.

 

[beameup]

There is, but one gospel. This is why Paul said those are accursed if they preach any other gospel. Gal 5:7 was simply to show that Paul was sent to the gentiles and Peter the Jews.

There are those who believe the Kingdom is now present on the earth (not so you'd notice), so it would follow that they would be preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom.
Others believe that the Kingdom on the Earth (ruled by Messiah) was rejected at the stoning of Stephen, and so Paul was chosen by God (Acts 9) to reveal a "mystery" which had been hidden in God. To Paul was revealed a new Gospel of Salvation, available to all humans - the Gospel of Grace, through Faith, without Works.

Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

PS: Now some who believe that the Gospel of Grace applies currently, also believe that the Gospel of the Kingdom will once again be preached in the "last days", by pure Hebrews, to the ends of the earth, by utilizing the gifts demonstrated in the first few chapters of Acts (instant foreign language skills, instant transportation (Philip), and "signs" such as divine healing, etc.).

 

[JonC]

There was absolute reason to say what I stated or I would not have bothered to say it. Your reaction is what is childish, and you continue that path above.

My point is that no person has power to repent, thus my response. In another thread your friend dhk preached that with men, concerning salvation, 'it isn't impossible but it is difficult' so you have to know the history.

What made me conclude that you were childish was not merely your comment to DHK. Look at the post again, brother. It was your conclusion about me that solidified that response. You see, I believe in the total depravity of men to turn to God in repentance, I believe in efficacious grace, in unconditional election, in particular redemption, and in the eternal security of the believer. I just reject Calvinism. So DHK and I will not agree here, but neither will we.

You concluded that DHK (and I, since I disliked your comment) I believe that “at a certain age men and women become gods”. If this is not a “rabbit picture”, if it is not a childish insult, then defend the statement.

 

[Iconoclast]

What does it mean to believe in Christ?
It means to change your mind or attitude about Christ. Once you did not believe that He could save you or that you would submit to Him as Lord. Now you have a change of mind, and believe on Him as Savior and Lord. That is both putting your faith and trust and Christ, and the definition of repentance at the same time.
How you want to draw the Judaizers into that or this discussion I don't know how or why. I wasn't discussing them. You were. They are a non sequitor as far as I am concerned. The Judaizers were not interested in repentance.

Your post is full of what you do. What we are saying is biblical salvation just all about what God does in and to us not about what we do.
The Judaizers what concerned about what they do. You are in principle suggesting the same thing that the Judaizers offered.
You keep suggesting that the dead sinners just changes his mind on his own, that there is no supernatural work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Internet Theologian]

What made me conclude that you were childish was not merely your comment to DHK. Look at the post again, brother. It was your conclusion about me that solidified that response.

What conclusion about you? I made no such statement about anything concerning you or what you said. Here is what I said and there is nothing about you in it:

Which is the same power that all lost have. None.

Except in your gospel.

I suppose then in your gospel that at a certain age men and women become gods and have a power source within themselves to have supernatural faith and innate ability to spiritually repent. Correct?

In fact I've not read any of your comments in this thread until I noticed your reaction.

You see, I believe in the total depravity of men to turn to God in repentance,

I'm not sure what you are saying there.

I believe in efficacious grace, in unconditional election, in particular redemption, and in the eternal security of the believer. I just reject Calvinism. So DHK and I will not agree here, but neither will we.

I don't concern myself with all of that whether we agree or not. My comment had to do with facilitating belief that none of us have ability to repent or believe without God. Thus I commented and the comment was also a question. There is history behind why I stated it and asked it.

You concluded that DHK (and I, since I disliked your comment) I believe that “at a certain age men and women become gods”. If this is not a “rabbit picture”, if it is not a childish insult, then defend the statement.

Already done. Know the history that I mentioned and perhaps then you will understand my comment, especially when you note the possibility 'with men' comments of his I noted from previous teachings he's provided.

Read above again, I never saw anything you said nor did I respond to anything you said. You're taking my comment as a personal comment toward you. I can see why, as you figured I had also responded to what you said about something. Again, I didn't read your posts and frankly your reaction is quite callow and premature. You stated there was no reason to think dhk preaches this. In his posting history he does preach this, again, he stated with men concerning salvation 'It isn't impossible but it is difficult' so I actually do have reason to think he preaches that because he in fact has.

 

[kyredneck]

I was talking about in reference to the gospel times of the New Testament church. I do not deny their were born again believers outside of the Jews

So, no more secret believers, ever, under the new covenant. If they don't come out of the closet and fess up that means they were never really a child of God to begin with. Right?

And all this time I thought God never changes and Christ is the same today as He was yesterday.

 

[kyredneck]

YES.....REALLY..

Actually Paul nails it in the salutation; the theme of the book of Romans is GOD.

Romans 1:
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
4 who was declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead; even Jesus Christ our Lord,
10 making request, if by any means now at length I may be prospered by the will of God to come unto you.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.
25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.

Romans 2:
2 And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things.
3 And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you, even as it is written.

Romans 3:
2 Much every way: first of all, that they were intrusted with the oracles of God.
3 For what if some were without faith? shall their want of faith make of none effect the faithfulness of God?
5 But if our righteousness commendeth the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who visiteth with wrath? (I speak after the manner of men.)
7 But if the truth of God through my lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God:
21 But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;
25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God;

Romans 4:
20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God,

Romans 5:
1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
5 and hope putteth not to shame; because the love of God hath been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Spirit which was given unto us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.
15 But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto the many.

Romans 6:
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 7:
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:
7 because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:
9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
16 The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God:
19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the revealing of the sons of God.
21 that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God.
27 and he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
34 who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 9:
4 who are Israelites; whose is the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed.
11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
26 And it shall be, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, There shall they be called sons of the living God.

Romans 11:
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have left for myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to Baal.
22 Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God`s goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past tracing out!

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast said: ↑
I will answer this in detail when I get to the computer later on.
The way I understand the book of Romans faith is not the main issue in the book of Romans.
The main issue in the book of Romans is the righteousness of God .

the Lord Jesus Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth so it is not about faith.
faith is only the instrument that lays hold of the Lord Jesus Christ and that's a God given gift.

I didn't say what the main issue was. No need to discuss the book of Romans. I simply challenged him to compare how many times Paul spoke of repentance or even used the words repent and repentance as opposed to faith and believe.
If you want to discuss the theme of Romans you will have to start another thread.

DHK

Now here is what you said;
DHK said: ↑
Why does Paul write an entire book on the subject of salvation (Romans),

emphasizing that salvation is by faith (Romans 5:1 for example),

but never that salvation is by repentance--not even one time in 16 chapters?

Care to explain.

The answer to your question is right here; Paul explains mans problem, and God's solution

The problem as previously stated is man in his sin and unrighteousness needs a perfect righteousness which can only come from God.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

You said this DHK:

but never that salvation is by repentance--not even one time in 16 chapters?

Care to explain

You missed the whole point of the book.


He lists the sins that flow from this....unrighteousness...all leading up to the solution;

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Yes Paul's summary is that God's goodness is meant to lead men to REPENTANCE.

Here is God's solution.....The Righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ,accessed by faith by those who have been led to repentance-
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

[Internet Theologian]

You said this DHK: You missed the whole point of the book.

Agreed!

He lists the sins that flow from this....unrighteousness...all leading up to the solution;

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Yes Paul's summary is that God's goodness is meant to lead men to REPENTANCE.

Yet Paul didn't mention repentance in his Epistles say some when he in fact did here. There is also intent in the balance of the epistles; doctrine and instruction for His sheep. These are not written as a Gospel message to the lost so repentance wouldn't be 'preached', albeit there is ample evidence of what repentance looks like among the sheep and it is in fact turning from sin. Determining repentance as unnecessary by these epistles is to display a profound misunderstanding of Scripture, the Gospel's effect upon man, and their intent.

Here is God's solution.....The Righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ,accessed by faith by those who have been led to repentance 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

I agree that the theme of the book of Romans is 'the righteousness of God'. This theme is held by many godly men and commentators.