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What does "The Limited Atonement" actually proclaim? What are the Scriptural Proofs?

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Silverhair

Well-Known Member
@Silverhair



Heaven, Eternal life, thats the promised inheritance for him and his seed. Gal 3

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Thats why he looked for a heavenly country Heb 11 16

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Thats why he was heir of the world , the new world Rom 4:13

For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

So by the view you have been presenting all Jews born through the line of Abraham should be saved. But as you just pointed out in your post it is only those that believe in God that will be heirs of God.

the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Even when you try to put forward your errant view you actually prove what I have been pointing out to you. One is only a child of God through faith not by natural birth.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
So by the view you have been presenting all Jews born through the line of Abraham should be saved. But as you just pointed out in your post it is only those that believe in God that will be heirs of God.

the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Even when you try to put forward your errant view you actually prove what I have been pointing out to you. One is only a child of God through faith not by natural birth.
You dont understand these matters
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
You dont understand these matters

A rather bold comment from someone that has not even made the attempt to respond to a prior question.

I asked you this in a previous post and you just ignored it so I will ask it again.

What do you not understand about these verses or better yet what do you think they say? And perhaps you can explain why you think what you do.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

You keep saying a person is an heir of God before they believe but the bible disagrees with you so point out what I can't see.

Those verses do not leave any doubt. We are not heirs of God through any human means but only through faith in Him.

I am not depending upon what some man has told me the bible says I am depending upon what the Holy Spirit has said.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
A rather bold comment from someone that has not even made the attempt to respond to a prior question.

I asked you this in a previous post and you just ignored it so I will ask it again.

What do you not understand about these verses or better yet what do you think they say? And perhaps you can explain why you think what you do.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

You keep saying a person is an heir of God before they believe but the bible disagrees with you so point out what I can't see.

Those verses do not leave any doubt. We are not heirs of God through any human means but only through faith in Him.

I am not depending upon what some man has told me the bible says I am depending upon what the Holy Spirit has said.
You dont understand these matters, I have been explaining my pov and you dont understand. Salvation/Eternal life is promised to Heirs, Christ died exclusively for them ratifying to them their eternal inheritance Heb 9:15

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

An inheritance is for specifically named heirs, not for the whole world
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
@Silverhair

You keep saying a person is an heir of God before they believe but the bible disagrees with you so point out what I can't see.

Yes, as was Isaac, a child of promise/heir . Was he an heir before he became a believer, by the purpose and promise of God ? Yes or no

Gen 15:4

And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

Now he was heir but he wasnt born a believer, he wasnt born with Faith. Now this being an heir isnt natural, its spiritual, and has to do with eternal life and salvation
 
Matthew 1:21
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.

I understand it the be limited in the sense that He will atone for only those who come to faith in Him.

At the same time…

Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance,but now he commands all
people everywhere to repent.

This would imply that it is also unlimited in the sense that everyone has the opportunity to come to Him and be saved.

It seems that it is two sides of the side coin.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
@Silverhair



Yes, as was Isaac, a child of promise/heir . Was he an heir before he became a believer, by the purpose and promise of God ? Yes or no

Gen 15:4

And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

Now he was heir but he wasnt born a believer, he wasnt born with Faith. Now this being an heir isnt natural, its spiritual, and has to do with eternal life and salvation

Read the verse BF
Gen 15:4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."

Who was Issac's father BF. We become an heir/child of God, through faith.

Joh_1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

Rom_4:13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

If this is how you do your bible study it is no wonder that you have misunderstood the word of God.
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Matthew 1:21
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.

I understand it the be limited in the sense that He will atone for only those who come to faith in Him.

At the same time…

Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance,but now he commands all
people everywhere to repent.

This would imply that it is also unlimited in the sense that everyone has the opportunity to come to Him and be saved.

It seems that it is two sides of the side coin.
Acts 17:30 is referring to His People in Matt 1:21, His People are not just jews in israel.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Read the verse BF
Gen 15:4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."

Who was Issac's father BF. We become an heir/child of God, through faith.

Joh_1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

Rom_4:13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

If this is how you do your bible study it is no wonder that you have misunderstood the word of God.
Was Isaac a child of promise, heir before he was born of Sarah ?
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Matthew 1:21
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.

I understand it the be limited in the sense that He will atone for only those who come to faith in Him.

At the same time…

Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all
people everywhere to repent.

This would imply that it is also unlimited in the sense that everyone has the opportunity to come to Him and be saved.

It seems that it is two sides of the side coin.
I think 'Definite' Atonement is more accurate than 'Limited,' though TUDIP doesn't quite have the same ring to it as TULIP.
The command to repent and believe goes out to all people (eg. Mark 1:15), but the sad fact is that people will neither repent nor believe, not because God stops them from doing so, but because they have wicked disobedient hearts so that they will not repent (cf. Romans 10:21). The inability is moral, not innate or physical (John 3:19). Everyone has the opportunity to come to Christ (Isaiah 55:6-7; Matt. 11:28) and be saved, but no one will do so unless God does a work on his heart to cause him to believe (John 3:3; 1 Cor. 2:14; cf. Luke 14:23)
Therefore God, foreseeing this situation, in His mercy chose in eternity (Eph. 1:4ff) a vast number of guilty sinners to be saved (Rev. 7:9-10) and gave them to the Lord Jesus Christ to rescue and save (John 6:39 etc.).
So to answer the O.P., Definite Atonement proclaims that God does actually love His people enough to save them (eg. Jer. 31:3). It proclaims that the Lord Jesus not only came into the world to save sinners, but that He will actually do so (John 10:27-28; 17:2, 24). And it proclaims that those who repent and believe can know that they are the true children of God (1 John 4:13-15; 5:1).
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Was Isaac a child of promise, heir before he was born of Sarah ?

Issac was the child promised to Abraham and Sarah. He was the heir of Abraham after he was born. Note what the verse says BF, "one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."

So again what is your point?
 
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JesusFan

Well-Known Member
I think 'Definite' Atonement is more accurate than 'Limited,' though TUDIP doesn't quite have the same ring to it as TULIP.
The command to repent and believe goes out to all people (eg. Mark 1:15), but the sad fact is that people will neither repent nor believe, not because God stops them from doing so, but because they have wicked disobedient hearts so that they will not repent (cf. Romans 10:21). The inability is moral, not innate or physical (John 3:19). Everyone has the opportunity to come to Christ (Isaiah 55:6-7; Matt. 11:28) and be saved, but no one will do so unless God does a work on his heart to cause him to believe (John 3:3; 1 Cor. 2:14; cf. Luke 14:23)
Therefore God, foreseeing this situation, in His mercy chose in eternity (Eph. 1:4ff) a vast number of guilty sinners to be saved (Rev. 7:9-10) and gave them to the Lord Jesus Christ to rescue and save (John 6:39 etc.).
So to answer the O.P., Definite Atonement proclaims that God does actually love His people enough to save them (eg. Jer. 31:3). It proclaims that the Lord Jesus not only came into the world to save sinners, but that He will actually do so (John 10:27-28; 17:2, 24). And it proclaims that those who repent and believe can know that they are the true children of God (1 John 4:13-15; 5:1).
Particular Baptists, as If Jesus truly really did die in the stead f all lost sinners, would seem to be either universal or else many in Hell with blood of Christ not atoning for them
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Issac was the child promised to Abraham and Sarah. He was the heir of Abraham after he was born. Note what the verse says BF, "one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."

So again what is your point?
Was Isaac a child of promise, heir before he was born of Sarah ? The point is believers are as Isaac was, heirs of promise, so they were heirs before they were born and born again and believers. Being an heir ensures one will become a believer.

Gal 4:28

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Was Isaac a child of promise, heir before he was born of Sarah ? The point is believers are as Isaac was, heirs of promise, so they were heirs before they were born and born again and believers. Being an heir ensures one will become a believer.

Gal 4:28

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

BF you are trying to conflate the promise to Abraham & Sarah that they would have a child to the promise of salvation through faith in God.

As Isaac experienced a supernatural birth to Abraham & Sarah in their old age and was a child by means of a promise, so each believer experiences a supernatural birth and is a recipient of the promise of salvation through faith (Gal_3:9, Gal_3:22, Gal_3:29).

Prior to his birth Isaac was not an heir, he was a potential heir. If he had not survived the birth he would not have been Abraham's heir. Just as we have to be living so we can trust in Him and thus become children of God if we are to be His heir.

The promise was that Abraham & Sarah would have a child. The promise to us is that if we trust in Him we will be children of God.
 
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