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What happens first?

Brother Bob

New Member
No, Satan said you could choose good over evil without God when he convinced Eve of the first lie. Sadly, that lie continues to deceive many.

My "doctrine" is not that the LORD says "adios", but that the LORD displayed His great love, compassion and mercy by saying "hello" to those He has chosen, according to His Freewill, regenerating them so they can respond in repentance and faith, and giving them His Spirit as a down payment of the inheritance they have in Heaven.

Sad to say His compassion don't include the non-Calvinist. Sorry everyone else but that is how it is according to those who have the authority of God to speak for Him (according to them).
The Lord said "preach to the whole world" but the Calvinist say no, "waste of time".
 
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2BHizown

New Member
DHK said:
This is Scriptural error. God does not give faith to believe. Where is that in the Bible. Give Scriptural evidence. God may give faith to a Christian but not to an unbeliever. You have a wrong definition of faith.
DHK

How can you say it is error after the verse I posted? Guess I'm not following you! Seems clear to me.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
2BHizown said:
How can you say it is error after the verse I posted? Guess I'm not following you! Seems clear to me.
Your first post was a quote from Jonathan Edwards.
Your second post was an opinion not backed up with Scripture, but refuted by Brother Bob in a previous post.
Faith, in respect to salvation, is not a gift from God. You have yet to demonstrate that from the Bible. Where is your evidence? It is a straightforward question. What is there not to follow or understand?
DHK
 

2BHizown

New Member
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8,9

He is clearly saying we are saved by the grace of God, believing Him, being justified by faith alone as given to us by God to believe and repent.

God granted the same to Abraham and Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness!
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
2BHizown said:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8,9

He is clearly saying we are saved by the grace of God, believing Him, being justified by faith alone as given to us by God to believe and repent.

God granted the same to Abraham and Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness!
Abraham beleived God.
There is no evidence to say that the belief or faith came from God. Where are you gettng this idea. If a city bus driver tells me that his bus will take me to the city center, and I put my faith, my trust in his word that it is so, does the faith come from God?
DHK
 

sparkle

New Member
2BHizown said:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8,9

He is clearly saying we are saved by the grace of God, believing Him, being justified by faith alone as given to us by God to believe and repent.

God granted the same to Abraham and Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness!

I always understood it to be SALVATION that is the gift, not faith, and that the salvation is not of works, which would indicate that man somehow earned salvation, which we know is not true.
 

Brother Bob

New Member
Scripture tells us that the entire world has already chosen to rebel against God's revelation (Rom.1:18+). Every person on the planet has made their choice and it is darkness, not light; it is rebellion, not obedience to God. Every person on the planet deserves hell and God's nature of Love would not be harmed in any way if He put us there.

Where in the world do you get the whole world chose evil in the following scripture. It is insane to try and reason with you for when you are wrong you will never admit it but leave for a day and then come back and then leave and then come back.:)

Romans, chapter 1

18: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19: Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20: For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22: Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23: And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24: Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

So they did have a chance to choose good according to the Scripture. Man do you err!
 

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
sparkle said:
I always understood it to be SALVATION that is the gift, not faith, and that the salvation is not of works, which would indicate that man somehow earned salvation, which we know is not true.
Your understanding is correct. It takes a shoe horn to squeeze "faith" as the gift being mentioned.
 

Brother Bob

New Member
Yes and the works its talking about in that Scripture is the works of the Law such as circumcism it says so. Also it is the deliverance of the Gentiles it is speaking of.

One thing I thank them for is they have made me really look in depth at that Scripture Eph 2
 

2BHizown

New Member
Phil 1 :29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him, but also to suffer for His sake.

God is the author of all saving faith!

Eph 2 : 8
Faith is a supernatural divine gift! Sin and Satan have so blinded fallen humans that they cannot discern dominical and apostolic witness to be God's word, not "see" and comprehend the realities of which it speaks, nor "come" in self-renouncing trust to Christ, till the Holy Spirit has enlightened them. Only the recipients of this divine "teaching", "drawing" and "anointing" come to Christ and abide in Him. God is thus the author of all saving faith!
(Evangelical Dictionary of Theology)
 

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Phil 1 :29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him, but also to suffer for His sake.

God is the author of all saving faith!
:laugh: This verse is dealing with the privilege to not only suffer for Christ, but to believe on Him, not the mystical nebulous gift of "saving faith". At any rate, is the privilege of suffering for Christ a forced issue, or can man CHOOSE not to suffer for Christ? Can man CHOOSE to not accept this "saving faith" too?
 

2BHizown

New Member
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ

This is the point being addressed, that it was given in the behalf of Christ. The suffering is not presently being addressed in this discussion, except that in suffering our faith is strengthened that was given to us!
 

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
2BHizown said:
This is the point being addressed, that it was given in the behalf of Christ. The suffering is not presently being addressed in this discussion, except that in suffering our faith is strengthened that was given to us!
It is still dealing with the privilege of believing in Christ, the fact that God's grace has even given man a chance to do so instead of getting what we all deserve.
 
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canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Brother Bob said:
Sad to say His compassion don't include the non-Calvinist. Sorry everyone else but that is how it is according to those who have the authority of God to speak for Him (according to them).
The Lord said "preach to the whole world" but the Calvinist say no, "waste of time".

All right Bbob, you have attributing to me something that I have never said; that is that a non-calvinist cannot be saved. I expect an apology, sir.

peace to you:praise:
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
2BHizown said:
This is the point being addressed, that it was given in the behalf of Christ. The suffering is not presently being addressed in this discussion, except that in suffering our faith is strengthened that was given to us!
That is not what the verse is saying:

Philippians 1:29 Because it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer on his behalf, (WEB)

It means that you have the privilege to believe in Christ, as well as to suffer on his behalf. Rejoice in this.
Faith or belief is not given by God, and this verse does not teach it. You quoted a definition from a reformed dictionary. I can quote just as many definitions from other sources that say otherwise.
Faith is confidence in the word of another. Specifically faith is confidence in the Word of God, that what He has said is true. It is trust, confidence. Either you accept what he says by faith that it is true and he will keep his word, or you don't. This is not a grace or supernatural gift that is given by God. You choose to reject Christ or to receive him. The choice is yours and someday you will give an account for that choice that you made. The same is true for every choice that you make in life.
DHK
 
Dale-c said:
You keep calling everyone "Calvanist" but I have never read anything by Calvin.
I simply read the Bible.

This sounds so noble, but almost all churches and denominations state this premise, yet they come up with a myriad of interpretations.

Are you saying that, outside of any influences such as your pastor or other Christians you associate with, you simply read the Bible and came up with the same beliefs that Calvinism teaches? I seriously doubt it.
 
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