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what happens if you die while you're sinning? Pt. 2
- Thread starter gekko
- Start date
DeafPosttrib
New Member
bapmom,
I know, no one talking on purgatory here. Yet James believes the kingdom of God/heaven is so called, 'a thousand years'. His belief that Christians shall be excluded from the kingdom of God at the Judgment Day, but, not lose salvation, lose rewards, lose blessing, lose reign. Then, a Christian will come out of the fire to be reunity with God and faithful saints again on new earth after 1000 years. This is unbiblical.
No scripture saying the kingdom of God is so called, a thousand years. Obivously, it teaches us, it is eternality, it have no end itself.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
I know, no one talking on purgatory here. Yet James believes the kingdom of God/heaven is so called, 'a thousand years'. His belief that Christians shall be excluded from the kingdom of God at the Judgment Day, but, not lose salvation, lose rewards, lose blessing, lose reign. Then, a Christian will come out of the fire to be reunity with God and faithful saints again on new earth after 1000 years. This is unbiblical.
No scripture saying the kingdom of God is so called, a thousand years. Obivously, it teaches us, it is eternality, it have no end itself.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
He didn't say anything about a Christian going through fire. We are talking about a loss of rewards if the Christian dies in unforgiven sin. Entrance into heaven is not a part of that loss. The Bible does say that there will be a 1000 year EARTHLY reign of Christ, after which Satan will be bound and cast into the Lake of Fire, along with all those who are unsaved and in Hell. Both Death and Hell are mentioned as being cast into the Lake of Fire at this time.
Some people believe that it will be during this 1000yr reign of Christ that some Christians will have some loss of rewards.....the specific rewards are not necessarily listed.
Some people believe that it will be during this 1000yr reign of Christ that some Christians will have some loss of rewards.....the specific rewards are not necessarily listed.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Bapmom,
Satan will be bound during the 1000 year reign of Christ and then loosed for a season after the millenial reign.
Now, there will be evil influences, those who will be trying to do the work of satan during this time, else there would be no need to rule with a rod of iron. (Rev. 2:27)
Rod of Iron speaks of authority
Satan will be bound during the 1000 year reign of Christ and then loosed for a season after the millenial reign.
Now, there will be evil influences, those who will be trying to do the work of satan during this time, else there would be no need to rule with a rod of iron. (Rev. 2:27)
Rod of Iron speaks of authority
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Rooster: Jesus never says I used to know you...it is I never knew you....The Lord know his own
HP: Our perspective remains by faith and may or may not be the perspective God sees us from. We are not privy to seeing things from absolute knowledge concerning our final standing before the Lord as He does.
They ‘thought’ they were eternally secure. They thought they would be afforded an entrance into the kingdom, but their faith was found in that day to be not founded upon the Rock.
Gods sees us absolutely, but again we cannot in this world see ourselves or our standing before Him in the same manner. We can be deceived, believing we are of the faith yet be found wanting in the end. In this world our walk is of faith and will remain so. Yes, we can know we are saved by faith. We should examine ourselves just as Scripture tells us to, to se if in fact we are of the faith. We must remain FAITHFUL TO THE END. Our works are a means by which that self examination takes place. James makes that clear, as do many other passages. “He that says he loves me, and keeps not my commandments, is a liar and the truth in not in him.” 1Jo 3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 ¶ For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 ¶ And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
HP: Our perspective remains by faith and may or may not be the perspective God sees us from. We are not privy to seeing things from absolute knowledge concerning our final standing before the Lord as He does.
They ‘thought’ they were eternally secure. They thought they would be afforded an entrance into the kingdom, but their faith was found in that day to be not founded upon the Rock.
Gods sees us absolutely, but again we cannot in this world see ourselves or our standing before Him in the same manner. We can be deceived, believing we are of the faith yet be found wanting in the end. In this world our walk is of faith and will remain so. Yes, we can know we are saved by faith. We should examine ourselves just as Scripture tells us to, to se if in fact we are of the faith. We must remain FAITHFUL TO THE END. Our works are a means by which that self examination takes place. James makes that clear, as do many other passages. “He that says he loves me, and keeps not my commandments, is a liar and the truth in not in him.” 1Jo 3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 ¶ For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 ¶ And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
DeafPosttrib
New Member
bapmom, didn't you know that Joey Faust wrote in his book, "The Rod", he believes that a lazy Christian shall suffer and hurt the second death, he means that a Christian shall be thrown in the lake of fire for a temporary. He wrote:
"Second death" of Rev. 20:14 never saying it is temporarily. It clears telling us, the lake of fire IS the second death means eternality punishment. That's period, no argue.
And more of his comment on Christian's temporarily punishment:
Wait a minute.... please ponder of Rev. 20:11-15 mentioned about the great white throne. Rev. 20:15 says, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Obivously it is forever, forever, forever, forever punishment! There is NO promise for a person who shall be release out of the lake of fire BEYOND great white throne day in the Bible. There is no purgatory in the Bible.
James Newman knows Joey Faust, because both are from Texas. He already met Faust several times, even, he did attendance conference with Faust.
James should know better than that. There is no purgatory in the Bible. Bible is very clear teaching us, we all have future eternality destiny, which we shall spend with devil or God after the judgment day.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
He wrote:
Also, he wrote:
His teaching is error.
"Second death" of Rev. 20:14 never saying it is temporarily. It clears telling us, the lake of fire IS the second death means eternality punishment. That's period, no argue.
And more of his comment on Christian's temporarily punishment:
Faust teaches, that a lazy Christian's name shall be blotted out of the book of life.
Wait a minute.... please ponder of Rev. 20:11-15 mentioned about the great white throne. Rev. 20:15 says, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Obivously it is forever, forever, forever, forever punishment! There is NO promise for a person who shall be release out of the lake of fire BEYOND great white throne day in the Bible. There is no purgatory in the Bible.
James Newman knows Joey Faust, because both are from Texas. He already met Faust several times, even, he did attendance conference with Faust.
James should know better than that. There is no purgatory in the Bible. Bible is very clear teaching us, we all have future eternality destiny, which we shall spend with devil or God after the judgment day.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Bapmom: We are talking about a loss of rewards if the Christian dies in unforgiven sin.
HP: Do you have a verse for that? Scripture tells me that eternal separation from God is the penalty for sin.
HP: Do you have a verse for that? Scripture tells me that eternal separation from God is the penalty for sin.
Brother Bob
New Member
The Bible does not teach that Christians will sin as you would have us believe. Everywhere you find where those among Christians were doing those thing they were not true born again Christians, period.
Jesus said it so simple;
The hour is coming when all in the graves shall hear my voice and unto them that have done good everlasting life (everlasting means just that, not a 1000 years)
and unto them who have done evil damnation (and we find in plenty of other Scriptures what that damnation is.
1 Timothy, chapter 6
"1": Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
"2": And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
"3": If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
"4": He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
"5": Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
(Preach and teach what Jesus taught and you can't go wrong.)
KJMatt.19
"16": And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
"17": And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
"18": He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
"19": Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
To teach men to break the Commandments is false doctrine. period
Jesus said it so simple;
The hour is coming when all in the graves shall hear my voice and unto them that have done good everlasting life (everlasting means just that, not a 1000 years)
and unto them who have done evil damnation (and we find in plenty of other Scriptures what that damnation is.
1 Timothy, chapter 6
"1": Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
"2": And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
"3": If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
"4": He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
"5": Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
(Preach and teach what Jesus taught and you can't go wrong.)
KJMatt.19
"16": And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
"17": And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
"18": He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
"19": Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
To teach men to break the Commandments is false doctrine. period
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Brother Bob,: The Bible does not teach that Christians will sin as you would have us believe. Everywhere you find where those among Christians were doing those thing they were not true born again Christians, period.
HP: I would word it this way. No man or woman that calls himself or herself a Christian can have a trustworthy assurance of their final standing before the Lord when in possession of an evil conscience before God or their fellowman. If we are to have and maintain a consistent trustworthy assurance of our final standing before the Lord, it will be in conjunction with a pure heart and clean hands, walking in the light as He is in the light in obedience to His Word.
HP: I would word it this way. No man or woman that calls himself or herself a Christian can have a trustworthy assurance of their final standing before the Lord when in possession of an evil conscience before God or their fellowman. If we are to have and maintain a consistent trustworthy assurance of our final standing before the Lord, it will be in conjunction with a pure heart and clean hands, walking in the light as He is in the light in obedience to His Word.
Check your Bible:
1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
This would be a totally redundant verse if Christians did not sin.
So would this one:
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Notice that John the beloved Apostle includes himself in the "we" as a sinner who sins, and must confess his sin.
--And yet you contend that a Christian doesn't sin?
That is not what my Bible says.
Brother Bob
New Member
DHK; I should of said teach that Christian will sin a sin unto death, such as adultery, murder etc.
1 John, chapter 5
"14": And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
"15": And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
"16": If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
"17": All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Hebrews, chapter 6
4": For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
"5": And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
"6": If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
1 John, chapter 5
"14": And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
"15": And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
"16": If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
"17": All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Hebrews, chapter 6
4": For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
"5": And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
"6": If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Hi DHK,
Did I fail to find your response to my last post to you, or are you still thinking?
Did I fail to find your response to my last post to you, or are you still thinking?
Brother Bob,
The scriptures tell us that if you are guilty of slipping up in just one part of the commandments, you are guilty of committing them all.
Mike
Of course, Jesus taught that if you have that quick lustfull thought you are a guilty adulterer. If you have the slightest inordinant anger in your heart towards someone you are a guilty murderer.
The scriptures tell us that if you are guilty of slipping up in just one part of the commandments, you are guilty of committing them all.
God bless,
Mike
DeafPosttrib
New Member
Understand, laws and the ten commandments of the Old Testament are like as "mirror" showing us, that we are sinner. Laws and commandments cannot saved us, only Jesus Christ can saved us. We have to faith toward Christ, not laws.
Notice Abraham was saved by through his faith upon Christ.
Bible have only one plan of salvation throughout all age from Old Testament period to New Testament period base upon FAITH on Christ only, no other else.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Notice Abraham was saved by through his faith upon Christ.
Bible have only one plan of salvation throughout all age from Old Testament period to New Testament period base upon FAITH on Christ only, no other else.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Claudia,
Could you point me to a specific post where someone is "pretending they dont understand", when they do?
If you are not sinless, like all of us arent, and you are a sinner, just like all of us are, then you DO NOT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
KEEP THE LAW = Never breaking them. Never sinning.
Its very difficult.
We all need to be consistant with our claims.
God bless,
Mike
This is about the 3rd time you have said something like that, and its one of the more curious things I've heard someone say on these boards.
Could you point me to a specific post where someone is "pretending they dont understand", when they do?
But then you turn around and say that you "keep the Law"?
Because you make the claim that you "keep the Law".
If you are not sinless, like all of us arent, and you are a sinner, just like all of us are, then you DO NOT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
KEEP THE LAW = Never breaking them. Never sinning.
No kidding.
We all need to be consistant with our claims.
God bless,
Mike
DeafPosttrib
New Member
Mike,
Please read my recent post at "DEGREES of Sin", that I discuss about sin. Also, I did discuss on Romans chapter 6,7, & 8 on sin issue.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Please read my recent post at "DEGREES of Sin", that I discuss about sin. Also, I did discuss on Romans chapter 6,7, & 8 on sin issue.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Deafposttrib,
So, you guys come up with a man made "hierarchy of sins". These sins wont keep us out of heaven..(as long as we repent real quick and get "good enough for heaven" again)..while these sins over here will keep us out of heaven.
The problem is that God makes no distinction. He says that the quick little lustfull look means you are guilty of adultery. That little bit of inordinate anger makes you guilty of murder.
God says...
"Cursed is that one who does not continue in all things of the book of the Law, to do them"
God knows full well our hopeless condition and He has rescued us...
"God made Him who knew no sin, to become sin, so that we might become the rightiousness of God in Him"
Christ has taken all our sin upon Himself, taking our death penalty for us.
Then, God imputes to us...permanently and completly...Christs sinlessness and rightiousness...
I pray this will be of benefit to you.
God bless,
Mike
I read your post and you make the same errors that BrotherBob and many many others make, and that is this: In your determined effort to maintain a works justification system, you attempt to reconcile your sinful condition...just as we all are sinners...with the truth that God demands sinlessness of us.
So, you guys come up with a man made "hierarchy of sins". These sins wont keep us out of heaven..(as long as we repent real quick and get "good enough for heaven" again)..while these sins over here will keep us out of heaven.
The problem is that God makes no distinction. He says that the quick little lustfull look means you are guilty of adultery. That little bit of inordinate anger makes you guilty of murder.
God says...
"Cursed is that one who does not continue in all things of the book of the Law, to do them"
God knows full well our hopeless condition and He has rescued us...
"God made Him who knew no sin, to become sin, so that we might become the rightiousness of God in Him"
Christ has taken all our sin upon Himself, taking our death penalty for us.
Then, God imputes to us...permanently and completly...Christs sinlessness and rightiousness...
Having been permanently freed from the Law, and given the eternal gift of Christs rightiousness, we are free to grow in grace, and spend the rest of our lives "putting off the old man", with his lusts and pridefull rebellion, while "Putting on the new man", which of course is the sweet and life changing fruit of the Holy Spirit."
I pray this will be of benefit to you.
God bless,
Mike
Brother Bob
New Member
Yea, I am tired too its like talking to a brick wall for they keep accusing us of saying we think you are saved by the law and in no way have we said that. They say that by Grace through faith are you saved but they do not realize the Scripture teaches that by Grace are we taught to keep all ungodliness and worldly lust. By Grace are we kept by the power of God. By Grace are the Laws in our heart and our mind. By Grace is the righteous of the Law fulfilled in us. If you really have the Grace then the Law is not grevious to us. I have no problem with it at all. Now if I wanted to do those things or excuse one of my family or friends who have done such things then who knows I might be persuaded by so evil spirit to do so. They don't accept transgession of the Law is sin and a sin unto death of which the Lord said not to pray for. They don't understand that we put off the old creature and put on the new. They don't understand that we do not walk after the flesh but after the Spirit. They don't understand that we believe that we are saved by Grace through faith and are only like the Lord Himself. They don't understand when they say you can break the Law they are telling people just the opposite of what our Lord said. So to bear false witness of the Lord is breaking the Law also.
The have never given answers to Scriptures like this:
Romans, chapter 2
"12": For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
"13": (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
"14": For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
"15": Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
"16": In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
16": In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
"17": Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
"18": And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
"19": And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
"20": An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
"21": Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
"22": Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
"23": Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
The have never given answers to Scriptures like this:
Romans, chapter 2
"12": For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
"13": (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
"14": For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
"15": Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
"16": In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
16": In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
"17": Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
"18": And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
"19": And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
"20": An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
"21": Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
"22": Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
"23": Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
Question: "what happens if you die while you're sinning?"
Answer: Any man ever died righteous - in himself?
Any ma whose righteousness is not as filthy rags, except in Jesus Christ?
Answer: Any man ever died righteous - in himself?
Any ma whose righteousness is not as filthy rags, except in Jesus Christ?