What if brother Paul Washer were to preach in your church?

[Squire Robertsson]

From the remarks here, I wouldn't think of having Mr. Washer speak in the pulpit God placed in my stewardship. My responsibility is to feed my sheep not to wound them. Yes, the faithful preaching of God's Word will give offense. But, that doesn't mean I have to be personally offensive.

 

[Yeshua1]

Ok here is how you answer this question:

1. Put here the view point of man on salvation. Please include scripture if you have that support or make it clear it is just your opinion.

2. Put here the view point of God on Salvation. Please include scripture if you have that support it or make it clear it is just your opinion.

3. Give a clear explanation here of the distinct difference of the two view points using your previous points for support.

Please break down your use of scripture in a manner that makes clear your though process on how the scripture you use to support each point makes your case.

The easiest way to answer this would be to list the 5 points of Grace as the method God uses to save sinners, and list those views against them as opinions...

(Tongue frmly in cheek!)

 

[Revmitchell]

The easiest way to answer this would be to list the 5 points of Grace as the method God uses to save sinners, and list those views against them as opinions...

(Tongue frmly in cheek!)

Umm....no

 

[evangelist6589]

From the remarks here, I wouldn't think of having Mr. Washer speak in the pulpit God placed in my stewardship. My responsibility is to feed my sheep not to wound them. Yes, the faithful preaching of God's Word will give offense. But, that doesn't mean I have to be personally offensive.

That's because most here are against LS!

 

[StefanM]

Biblically/theologically speaking, election and salvation are different things, but they are inextricably linked. An elected person will be saved, and a saved person has been elected.

If you adopt a non-individual/corporate view of election, you might be able to separate them more, though.

 

[JamesL]

That's because most here are against LS!

That's because it's a false gospel....

 

[Yeshua1]

Umm....no

Well, If I used the ole 1689 Confession, would have loads of scripture to list!!

 

[Revmitchell]

Biblically/theologically speaking, election and salvation are different things, but they are inextricably linked. An elected person will be saved, and a saved person has been elected.

If you adopt a non-individual/corporate view of election, you might be able to separate them more, though.

Prior to salvation it is a coorporate election. When we become save it is now individual. God chose before the foundation of the world to save those who believe. That is election. Once I put on salvation, by God's grace, it is now my election and I am among the elect.

 

[Revmitchell]

Well, If I used the ole 1689 Confession, would have loads of scripture to list!!

I am not looking for someone else's explanation. If you cannot defend it then you should not claim it.

 

[StefanM]

Prior to salvation it is a coorporate election. When we become save it is now individual. God chose before the foundation of the world to save those who believe. That is election. Once I put on salvation, by God's grace, it is now my election and I am among the elect.

Thanks for expounding on how corporate election (or elements of it) can create more distance.

 

[JamesL]

Biblically/theologically speaking, election and salvation are different things, but they are inextricably linked. An elected person will be saved, and a saved person has been elected.

If you adopt a non-individual/corporate view of election, you might be able to separate them more, though.

Or, if you look at scriptural words related to elect (chosen, called, etc) and then see what words are further related through those (inherit, son, heir, reward, etc)

You can see a whole teaching in scripture that not everyone who believes in Christ is among the elect.

Every believer have eternal life, and will be in the presence of Christ for eternity, but not every believer is one of the elect. Not everyone in the presence of Christ will be one of the elect.

 

[Yeshua1]

I am not looking for someone else's explanation. If you cannot defend it then you should not claim it.

Can defead it, but we would no doubt view the same scriptures in different fashion!

 

[Revmitchell]

Thanks for expounding on how corporate election (or elements of it) can create more distance.

I don't know what that means.

 

[Yeshua1]

Thanks for expounding on how corporate election (or elements of it) can create more distance.

Except that is not taught in the scriptures under the NT, as that type of Corporate election could describe national Israel, but not the Church!

 

[InTheLight]

Prior to salvation it is a coorporate election. When we become save it is now individual. God chose before the foundation of the world to save those who believe. That is election. Once I put on salvation, by God's grace, it is now my election and I am among the elect.

This is essentially what I was saying (or trying to say.)

Get ready to get excoriated by Calvinists for using the phrase "once I put on salvation"...

 

[StefanM]

I don't know what that means.

Distance between election and salvation (making them more distinct). A non-corporate view of election doesn't allow for as much distinction.

 

[StefanM]

Or, if you look at scriptural words related to elect (chosen, called, etc) and then see what words are further related through those (inherit, son, heir, reward, etc)

You can see a whole teaching in scripture that not everyone who believes in Christ is among the elect.

Every believer have eternal life, and will be in the presence of Christ for eternity, but not every believer is one of the elect. Not everyone in the presence of Christ will be one of the elect.

That's one interpretation, but it's definitely not a mainstream view. (That doesn't make it wrong, only a minority view.)

 

[StefanM]

Except that is not taught in the scriptures under the NT, as that type of Corporate election could describe national Israel, but not the Church!

Maybe, maybe not. I'm speaking in terms of possible interpretations, not necessarily saying one is correct.

 

[JonShaff]

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This is why I'm part of the elect

 

[JamesL]

Prior to salvation it is a coorporate election. When we become save it is now individual. God chose before the foundation of the world to save those who believe. That is election. Once I put on salvation, by God's grace, it is now my election and I am among the elect.

Wrong.

Once you believed, you were counted among the redeemed.

But you won't know if you are among the elect until you reach the end, and look back to see if you finished the course. Even the Apostle Paul said that he hoped that he would attain to the resurrection of Christ, and not that he had already attained it