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What is a cult
- Thread starter Salty
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On and on, folks, on and on. The TULI of the TULIP is bogus.
On and on, folks, one falsehood after another. We are waiting for our adoption.
Mikey
Active Member
Accusing me of redefining yet you fail to explain the difference between a confession and a statement of faith or "what we believe". Why don't you do that?
How does looking at "bogus doctrine" within a specific confession have anything to do with what a confession is or if confessions should be used by churches? I already admitted that there are doctrine which i disagree with within certain confessions, this is obvious since different confessions confess different things. Just because there are "bogus" doctrines contained in specifc confessions, rthis does not mean that confessions in general are bad.
And infact i did suggest a confession, the confession of your church. I assume you have access to a copy since you helped write it.
Actually this is false. i said that we can look at the issues of how confessions are used but first we need to deal with the first issue of what a confession is and that it is a good thing. It was you who kept bringing up how confessions were used in "forced upon churches" when i stated that confessions are not wrong in of themselves.
You seem either unwilling or unable to recognise the different issues; What a confession is, How confessions are used, and What confessions contain, are different issues. You keep bring up the latter two when i ask about the first.
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The inability to learn is the hallmark of ignorance. I have shown over and over the TULI of the TULIP are unbiblical doctrines.
The issue is not whether we are children of God if we are born anew, the issue is we are looking forward to our bodily redemption at Christ's second coming. You deny this, falsely claiming we have already been adopted. Additionally you are reading the English word meaning (adoption) back into the Greek word which refers to obtaining our "coming of age" rights as children of God. "Sonship" rights and benefits bestowed on adult children.
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Here we have the core issue of Mikey, just because creeds and confessions prepared by others often contain bogus unbiblical errors, does not mean we should not disavow their usage in general. I kid you not...
Mikey
Active Member
So we must disavow all confessions that exist because some contain "bogus doctrines"?? You yourself were involved in writing a confession for you Church, which i assume you also affirm. So how come you're not disavowing all confessions? Does your confession not contain "bogus doctrines", if so then your argument of opposition to confessions is shown false. To hold to a confession, then denounce all confessions becasue Confessions equals "bogus doctrine" is inconsistant, hypocritical and downright dishonest.
And you still fail to answer any of my questions or present any coherent rational argument for your position throughout our conversation. And you have made accusations towards me, where again you fail to present any evidence for. You have made it quite clear, to me and everyone else who has read our posts, that you are unwilling or unable to any sort of rational conversation, so i will end it now.
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On and on, Mikey charges ahead, we are not to disavow bogus doctrine. He continues to use his own definitions for words, as if their meanings did not count. I say I helped write a What we believe statement, and Mr. Mikey misrepresents me and says I wrote a confession. He is a fount of falsehood.
Notice Mr. Mikey addresses my behavior, but has provided no creed or confession used domination wide.
Confession of faith, formal statement of doctrinal belief ordinarily intended for public avowal by an individual, a group, a congregation, a synod, or a church; confessions are similar to creeds, although usually more extensive.
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Mikey
Active Member
You accuse me of making up definitions yet the definition you posted supports my statements! "A Confession of faith is a formal statement of doctrine belief" so how does this disprove my statement that a confession is the same as "What we believe" statement? How is "what we believe" not a formal statements of doctrinal belief??
Your own statement shows that i have not misrepresented you. You admit that you were involved in your church's "what we believe" statement. Which is what? An official statement of doctrinal beliefs! the exact definition of what a Confession of Faith is!
Can you not see how you contradict yourself?
Mr. Mikey has joined the Triple "F" club. Even in Red and Bolded, he omits "intended for public avowal."
Mikey
Active Member
You did not explain why the highlighted part was important, you did explain how you thought the highlighted part suppots your argument, In fact you still haven't. So how does "ordinarily intended for public avowal" in any way discredit what i said?
Do you know what "avowal" means?
Cambridge Dictionary: "Avowal, noun, a statement in which you say or admit something that you believe, support, or intend to do"
Merriam-Webster Dictionary: "Avowal; an open declaration or acknowledgment"
So a confession is a public declaration of a statement of doctrinal belief. How exactly does a "what we believe" not fit that definition?
Non-stop nonsense is being posted by Mr. Mikey. A confession is a litmus test, either you publically "confess" you believe all of its doctrines, or you hit the highway.
Mikey
Active Member
Where is "litmus teast" stated in the definition of what a confession that YOU posted? It isn't. After accusing me of making up my definitions, you make up a definition that is contray to the definition which You posted. (hypocrytical much?)
You posted this definition:
"Confession of faith, formal statement of doctrinal belief ordinarily intended for public avowal by an individual, a group, a congregation, a synod, or a church; confessions are similar to creeds, although usually more extensive."
I responded, as seen in the quotes below, and have demonstrated that the definition of a confession proves what i have said; that the definition of a confession is the same as that of a "what we belive" statement. You failed to interact with anything i said but instead made the claim that i avoided to mention the all important highlighted part. And when i did interact with the highlighted part, showing that all it said was "public declaration", you nolonger want to discuss the definition but instead bring up "litmus tests".
Throughout our conversation you have failed to provide any consistant argument to these questions. Can you do so now?
Can you give a definition of what a "what we believe" statment is?
Can you provide an explanation of how you thought the definition provided supported your position? (with specific focus on why you highlighted that specific part of the definition. What did you think it said?)
Can you explain how the definition of a "confession of Faith" differs from that of a "what we believe" statement?
Can you give any reasonable argument in how a confession is not a statement of faith?
PS. Litmus tests is an issue of usage, and is not evidence/argument for what a confession is or how it is different from a statement of faith. All Statement of Faith can be used as "Litmus Tests" including "what we believe" statements.
On and on, Mr. Mikey denies the obvious. If a person is to subscribe to the views of the creed or confession, it is a litmus test.
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