Oh yes I'm a bad boy for telling you the truth. I believe it is you who misunderstands. Strange thing about the truth of scripture. It cuts right to the bone. Maybe you can't handle the deep things of God.
MB
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What is God's criterion for election?
- Thread starter George Antonios
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MB
Sounds like a conspiracy, a new computer with a virus. I don't know about you but I haven't had a virus since Microsoft came out with windows 10 and the free antivirus program called windows defender. Maybe I'm just blessed.
MB.
It is a Calvinist assumption that free willers believe there freewill saves them. We are not saved by our will we are saved by grace through faith Eph 2:8
MB
You denied this earlier
It is hypocritical to accuse when you are unable to win an argument. This must be your best defense of your accusation. May I suggest that you pray God will forgive you.
MB
Walpole
Well-Known Member
"And IF they turn away."
How can they be warned to turn away if they don't have the capacity to do so? If you don't have the capacity to do so, repentance would be impossible and God's repeated imploring of man to repent is illogical and contra-logos.
This is Christianity 101.
Choice has no place in Calvinism. You realize this right? If you were created to be elected no choice you make can effect that. Conversely, if you were created for God to take pleasure in destroying, no choice you make will prevent you from being eternal pulpwood.
This is Calvinism 101.
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Prove it.
MB
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Clearly you don't understand what we believe and have no desire to do so. If you are just going to keep making false accusations about what we believe, when it isn't what we believe, I see no reason to engage you further.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Best wishes to you and good luck on being elected.
Particular
Well-Known Member
Particular
Well-Known Member
Oh so you belive in luck? I'm not surprised
Particular
Well-Known Member
I find it interesting when humans hate God for being Supreme over all His creation and making Sovereign choices by displaying unmerited grace to whom he wills.
How do people who profess the name of Christ hate God for being Supreme?
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Other than the words in these verses that are in Bold, the last thing a sinner needs to concern themselves with is Determining and Decreeing What God Can Be, or not.
You either know God and Love Him, or not.
"Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ."
If there is a way to chase down this message, it is great.
Renewing Your Mind with R.C. Sproul
I would say what R. C. SPROUL teaches here, as a positive/ negative way to see Predestination.
All sinners would Go to Hell.
God Chose Some, according to the good pleasure of his will,...
Do you Love that God?
That is the Only God there is.
I hadn't heard this message or any other from this man, but he is exactly right.
The idea of 'Choosing or Electing those who Go to Hell' is not a Biblical concept.
IAs a Bible Believe, the administration here rationalized their pigeonholing of me incorrectly, as a 'Hyper'-Calvinist. That would be someone who goes with the idea of 'Choosing or Electing those who Go to Hell' which is not a Biblical concept, any more than questions about 'criterion for salvation'.
All sinful souls, When God negatively addresses their condition by doing nothing, then, God Allows them to go their own way, in sin, and Go to Hell Forever.
All Human Beings would have Gone to Hell.
Salvation Will Take a soul A Looooong Way toward Understanding The Bible and Biblical concepts and actually Loving The God of The Bible, Who lost souls hate.
The unbeliever does not believe they are in that sinful condition
...and that they have sin that blinds them to God,
... and THAT THEY ARE IMPOTENT,
...and have No Ability to even know the Eternal Depth
...and Consequences of their sins Against God, or...
... THAT THAT SIN MUST HAVE GOD INVOLVED
TO CONVICT THEM of Their Total Depravity or Total Incapability.
By not Having God Convict them
and Give them the knowledge of their inability to believe,
Apart from God,
THEY DO NOT HAVE THE AWARENESS
OF THAT SINFUL CONDITION,
FROM WHICH
GOD MUST GRANT THEM REPENTANCE.
All sinful souls are children of WRATH BOUND FOR HELL..
.. that must Have God Show them their sinful HELPLESSNESS...
... that must Have God Convict them of their HELPLESSNESS.
... and God must GIVE THEM REPENTANCE
of That sinful condition of Helpless, Impotent, Total Incapability and Depravity..
... Then, after Hearing The School Master and The Law and The Gospel,
HOW JESUS DIED FOR A REASON, FOR THE SPECIFIC SINS
THAT WERE PLACED ON HIM, FOR HIS SPECIFIC PEOPLE (MATTHEW 1:21),
...SINNERS ARE COMMANDED TO REPENT
AND if God Gives them REPENTANCE Toward God
and Faith in The Work of Jesus' Death, Burial, and Resurrection,..
... The sinful soul is GIVEN BIBLICAL SPIRITUAL BELIEF, IN THE NEW SPIRITUAL BIRTH that REGENERATES AND BRINGS ETERNAL LIFE to the previously dead soul.
THOSE ARE THE SINFUL SOULS GOD CHOSE TO GIVE TO JESUS TO SAVE...
.. AND JESUS ACCOMPLISHED REDEMPTION FOR THOSE GOD GAVE HIM.
...
No sinful soul has ever 'believed', 'had faith', or 'power', for Salvation,
UNLESS:
.. THEY WERE PREACHED THE GOSPEL
... GIVEN CONVICTION OF THEIR SINS BY GOD..
... GIVEN REPENTANCE TO TURN FROM THEIR SIN BY GOD...
.... AND BE GIVEN FAITH TO BELIEVE AND TRUST IN JESUS BY GOD.
...
EACH and EVERY TIME Salvation is referenced in The Bible in any way
IMPLIES GOD SAVED ONE OF HIS CHOSEN ELECT HIS WAY.
TOTAL DEPRAVITY IS IMPLIED.
PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL IS IMPLIED.
CONVICTION OF THE SINNERS TOTAL DEPRAVITY IS IMPLIED.
GOD-GIVEN REPENTANCE IS IMPLIED.
GOD-GIVEN FAITH AND BELIEF IS IMPLIED.
JESUS IS THE SAVIOR IS IMPLIED.
The Bible implies everywhere, Saved souls were Chosen.
EACH OF THE IMPLIED ACTIVITIES of GOD are TAUGHT in The Bible.
A soul Must Be Born Again to Be Taught The Bible.
....
Any 'experience' of religion that does not include:
the Spirit Wrought Awareness and Conviction
of THE SINNER DESERVING HELL,
HAVING EARNED AN ETERNITY IN HELL
AND JUSTLY BEING CONDEMNED TO HELL, BY GOD...
THAT GOD THEN GIVES REPENTANCE AND FAITH...
HAVE NOT BEEN SAVED AND ARE GOING TO HELL.
That is what a sinner that has not seen the incapability, helplessness,
and impotent Total Depravity of their soul, as an Activity of God,
needs to concern themselves with.
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Jesus Christ from the foundation before your creation had an UNCONDITIONAL HATRED for people.
The Sugar-Coated word for UNCONDITIONAL HATRED = UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION.
God made these choices according to his own purposes apart from any conditions or qualities related to those persons.
God will save those he chose to love and will damn those he chose to hate. HE hated you first or loved you first.
The entire Calvinist Gospel in ONE LINE ---> God will save those he chose to love and will damn those he chose to hate.
I can write out the gospel PERFECTLY in one line that some folks believe God was too dumb to express with dozen of books.
You can't find that line in scripture. because its false. The opposing view however is clearly laid out in scripture, even one line, in multiple passages even.
1 Timothy 2
4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Anyone who has unconditional hatred for anyone is at the service and worship of SATAN.
1 John 3
10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
The Sugar-Coated word for UNCONDITIONAL HATRED = UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION.
God made these choices according to his own purposes apart from any conditions or qualities related to those persons.
God will save those he chose to love and will damn those he chose to hate. HE hated you first or loved you first.
The entire Calvinist Gospel in ONE LINE ---> God will save those he chose to love and will damn those he chose to hate.
I can write out the gospel PERFECTLY in one line that some folks believe God was too dumb to express with dozen of books.
You can't find that line in scripture. because its false. The opposing view however is clearly laid out in scripture, even one line, in multiple passages even.
1 Timothy 2
4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Anyone who has unconditional hatred for anyone is at the service and worship of SATAN.
1 John 3
10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
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Particular
Well-Known Member
You lost my interest after your first sentence. Your statement shows your relationship with God. You consider your self the final authority who is supreme over God. There is no reasoning with you until you bow to the Supremacy of God over your self.
Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 4:35 PM Pacific.
This thread will be closed sometime after 4:35 PM Pacific.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
When it comes to salvation, in Calvinism it is entirely luck of the draw. For God's selection of his elect is entirely arbitrary, rendering it nothing more than the flip of a coin.
Hence, I wish you good luck in your election as well.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
I think some people can justify hating because their concept of God is one who hates. If God can hate, so then can man.
But with Calvinism, if you are one of the lucky ones created for election, the good news is you are going to heaven no matter how much you hate. By contrast though, if you are one of those whom God created to take pleasure in destroying, you are going to be eternal pulpwood, no matter how much you reject hate and instead love.
It can be difficult to differentiate the God of Calvinism with the God of Islam. For both act with pure will and contra-Logos.
Particular
Well-Known Member
Walpole, you really have misconceptions. Where does that come from in your life.
Neither scripture nor any Christian who recognizes the Supremacy of God have the view you present. That includes Calvinists who are not coming close to mirroring your caricature of them.
Are you simply ignorant of God's Supremacy or are you intentionally presenting a skewed view because of your own hatred?
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