What is the OFFICIAL Sda Views On Gospel And Ellen White?

[BobRyan]

Lets look at some Bible facts.

Firstly, the "scapegoat" had the sins of all of the people placed upon its head, (Lev.16:10, etc) and then it was sent into the wilderness. Both of these are a "type" fulfilled in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Not true. Only the "Lord's goat" was called 'the sin offering' once it was identified. Never the "scapegoat".
And only the sin offering could be a subtitutionary atoning sacrifice for sins.. the scapegoat was not killed - it was banished.

"without the shedding of blood - no forgiveness of sins" Hebrews 9.

The scapegoat is a symbol for the wicked paying their own debt -- as in the Matthew 18 case of "forgiveness revoked" the servant's full debt comes back to him to pay.

 

[BobRyan]

Secondly, as for Sunday. Look at John 20:19, (and the other Gospels), "hen the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst,

Not "assembled for weekly worship" but "assembled for fear of the Jews"

In Acts 18:4 "EVERY SABBATH" they gather for gospel preaching - both Jews and Gentiles - in the synagogue.

By contrast -- No such "Every week-day-1" for gathering, for worship, for Gospel preaching in all of scripture.

Nor even a single "week-day-1 is the Lord's day" in all of scripture

Even your own John 20 reference leaves it as a one time 'week day 1'

 

[BobRyan]

Then, in Acts 2:1, we have the Birth of the Church and giving of the Holy Spirit, which is known as "Pentecost", which is from the Greek, "pentēkostē", which means "fiftieth day", From the end of Saturday the 16th day of Nisan forty-nine days are counted, and fiftieth, or feast of Pentecost, falls on a Sunday.
.

1. The 16th day of Nisan is not always on a Saturday.

2. The text you use for "week-day-1" has a conspicuous lack of mention of "week day 1" or even "Lord's Day" and it certainly is not true that Pentecost would happen every week-day-1. You are pointing at another "one time event"

 

[bluejx]

Steaver has a hard time with that idea

he prefers a short "game" then some name calling, vitriol, acrimony... and then back to another game. (except when he is debating Calvinists of course.)

So I stick with questions that are on-topic and move the discussion forward for the unbiased objective readers.

Thanks for the heads up. You must be good at carpentry; you hit the nail on the head.

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[Saved-By-Grace]

1. The 16th day of Nisan is not always on a Saturday.

2. The text you use for "week-day-1" has a conspicuous lack of mention of "week day 1" or even "Lord's Day" and it certainly is not true that Pentecost would happen every week-day-1. You are pointing at another "one time event"

Interestingly, that almost the whole of Christendom, from the New Testament times, till our day, have no problem in Sunday as the day of worship, including taking the Day of Pentecost as Sunday. Then we have the likes of the SDA, who suppose that they have some special revelation, which the false-prophet, Mrs White received from someone other than the God of the Holy Bible, where Sunday is disregarded, and the Jewish worship day of Saturday is used as the correct one. Not only so, but also this false-prophet, took it upon herself, to pronounce to ALL those who Biblically worship the Lord God on Sunday, to say that these will have the mark of the beast, as described in the Book of Revelation, and therefore will be damned. This is nothing more than what the Apostle Paul calls, "doctrine of demons".

 

[BobRyan]

Saved-By-Grace said: ↑
Then, in Acts 2:1, we have the Birth of the Church and giving of the Holy Spirit, which is known as "Pentecost", which is from the Greek, "pentēkostē", which means "fiftieth day", From the end of Saturday the 16th day of Nisan forty-nine days are counted, and fiftieth, or feast of Pentecost, falls on a Sunday.

1. The 16th day of Nisan is not always on a Saturday.

2. The text you use for "week-day-1" has a conspicuous lack of mention of "week day 1" or even "Lord's Day" and it certainly is not true that Pentecost would happen every week-day-1. You are pointing at another "one time event" not a "weekly" day of worship[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]


Ignoring every detail mentioned we have this.

ad populum

Interestingly, that almost the whole of Christendom, from the New Testament times, till our day, have no problem in Sunday as the day of worship,

[/Quote][/quote]

No doubt the Protestant Reformation was "unpopular" with most Catholics.
The Christian evangelists of the first century were "unpopular" with the Jews
The message of Noah was "unpopular" with the world.

No one questions that.

But for those interested in "sola scriptura testing" of all doctrine - ... "details matter"

Christ was confronted with "ad populum --vs-- scripture" in Mark 7:6-13. How did He answer it there

 

[BobRyan]

Interestingly, that almost the whole of Christendom, from the New Testament times, till our day, have no problem in Sunday as the day of worship, including taking the Day of Pentecost as Sunday. Then we have the likes of the SDA, who suppose that they have some special ... <snip> obligatory factless rant deleted here...> ".

Reminds me of my signature line..

When reason vacates in regard to a given subject, the only weapons of argument left are in the hands of emotion. The simplest emotional weapons to wield are name-calling ,disparaging remarks, vitriol and acrimony for those deemed adversaries. All such ad hominem tactics provide nothing of persuasive substance, except to those whose reason has also been vacated on that same subject.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Reminds me of my signature line..

When reason vacates in regard to a given subject, the only weapons of argument left are in the hands of emotion. The simplest emotional weapons to wield are name-calling ,disparaging remarks, vitriol and acrimony for those deemed adversaries. All such ad hominem tactics provide nothing of persuasive substance, except to those whose reason has also been vacated on that same subject.

I can see that you have no regard to Bible or historical facts, but content to continue following the LIES that have deceived you.

 

[BobRyan]

Christ and Paul -- "tell the truth" as it turns out. (May come as a surprise to some folks)

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.?

When your appeal to the logical fallacy of ad populum is pointed out - what is the much expected response?

I can see that you have no regard to Bible or historical facts, but content to continue following the LIES that have deceived you.

Reminds me of my signature line..

When reason vacates in regard to a given subject, the only weapons of argument left are in the hands of emotion. The simplest emotional weapons to wield are name-calling ,disparaging remarks, vitriol and acrimony for those deemed adversaries. All such ad hominem tactics provide nothing of persuasive substance, except to those whose reason has also been vacated on that same subject.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

When your appeal to the logical fallacy of ad populum is pointed out - what is the much expected response?



Reminds me of my signature line..

When reason vacates in regard to a given subject, the only weapons of argument left are in the hands of emotion. The simplest emotional weapons to wield are name-calling ,disparaging remarks, vitriol and acrimony for those deemed adversaries. All such ad hominem tactics provide nothing of persuasive substance, except to those whose reason has also been vacated on that same subject.

 

[BobRyan]

The OP says "what is the official SDA belief about ..."

However there are those here who would love to insert "forget whatever their official belief is - I will tell them what they believe and it is this.. or that.. or whatever I can dream up" --

And of course everyone does have free will - and can post such things if they like. But at the very least the OP and title were a bit more objective.

 

[Yeshua1]

A lesser light pointing to the great light.

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Even though her teachings are non biblical?

 

[Yeshua1]

Mrs White, the "prophet" of the SDA movement said that those who worship on Sunday will received the mark of the beast as described in Revelation. Ellen G. White Estate: Daily Devotional - Maranatha This then must include the Disciples of the Lord Jesus, who actually were the first to worship on Sunday.

More importantly, Mrs White taught the arch-heresy of "The Investigative Judgment", which includes "As the priest, in removing the sins from the sanctuary, confessed them upon the head of the scapegoat, so Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, the originator and instigator of sin.", Ellen G. White Estate: Daily Devotional - Maranatha, which is nothing short of blasphemy as it makes satan, rather than the Lord Jesus Christ, the ultimate sacrifice for our sins. Jesus Christ, and not satan, is the "scapegoat" (sin-bearer) as He removes the sins of those who repent and believe in Him.

This comes extremely close to denying that the Cross of Christ is the basis to save any sinner!

 

[Yeshua1]

Take God's name in vain??

Sure one can commit that sin and then ask for forgiveness.

In the NT "Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4

How about rejecting Sabbath as binding for today?

 

[Yeshua1]

And take God's name in vain??

Those doing such as I stated would be honoring the Lord!

 

[Yeshua1]

and also that Matthew 18 and Romans 11 "details" are not to be "avoided" but rather accepted and believed.

Now I know what you are thinking "and what ARE those details in Matthew 18 and Romans 11 Bob?"

Thought you would never ask..

========================
Christ and Paul -- "tell the truth" as it turns out. (May come as a surprise to some folks)

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.?

Problem for you is that NEITHER passage supports what you hold though!

 

[Yeshua1]

you appear to claim to imagine that the forgiveness-revoked saints of Matthew 18 go to hell pay their own full debt of sin - then get eternal life in heaven.... are you Mormon? I thought you were Baptist.

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

No, rather that nothing we can do here while alive will be able to undo what Christ did for us while upon the Cross, nor be able to undo the sealing of the Holy Spirit!

 

[steaver]

I'm afraid we're at an impasse.

It's called a checkmate! Just like when Jesus questioned the Pharisees when they wanted to stick to their made up traditions. SDAs are just like the Pharisees, questions cause them to go silent.

What a beautiful question! One that causes the Pharisee to shrink away in fear of answering....

Do you believe if YOU sin YOU will be damned to hell? Yes or No, you are always free to explain your answer in the context you please.

The perfect question to ask an SDA!

 

[steaver]

No, rather that nothing we can do here while alive will be able to undo what Christ did for us while upon the Cross, nor be able to undo the sealing of the Holy Spirit!

The way you silence a Pharisee is to ask them a question like Jesus did. Pharisees are hung up on the Law. They believe salvation is found in obedience to the Law. This is proven out by a simple question, ask them, If you sin will you be damned to hell? They will shrink away, dodge and juke, rather than surrender to the beautiful Gospel of Grace.

 

[bluejx]

It's called a checkmate! Just like when Jesus questioned the Pharisees when they wanted to stick to their made up traditions. SDAs are just like the Pharisees, questions cause them to go silent.

What a beautiful question! One that causes the Pharisee to shrink away in fear of answering....

Do you believe if YOU sin YOU will be damned to hell? Yes or No, you are always free to explain your answer in the context you please.

The perfect question to ask an SDA!

Still waiting for the context of your question. When you give it I'll show you how Scripture answers your question.

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