What about the one thief crucified with Jesus on the cross?... Brother Glen
Willis I'll let you think about that... I'm going to bed... Good night BB
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What Is Total Depravity?
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What about the one thief crucified with Jesus on the cross?... Brother Glen
Willis I'll let you think about that... I'm going to bed... Good night BB
The same can be said of you, my brother.
John 16 speaks of these realities--The Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin vs. 8....He didn't say he would convict the children of God of this, did he?
Of Sin, because they do not believe.
I am reasoning from Scripture, down to my finite brain
EDIT--I will say, it's my understanding that the "conviction of righteousness and Judgment" by the Spirit of God are aspects of His Ministry after the sinner believes on the Lord Jesus Christ and becomes a child of God--He brings the child of God into righteous living as Christ would if we was personally with Us. And He convinces us that Satan is judged and God will protect us from the evil one.
And 'world' does not mean 'everybody whoever lived', either. God convicts His ppl of sin, righteousness, and judgment. But not everybody whoever lived is brought under these convictions.
Wut??
1 Corinthians 2:14 says the natural man, the man devoid of the Spirit of God, can not understand the things of the Spirit, and you say they can. Who rewrote this again????
What about the one thief crucified with Jesus on the cross?... Brother Glen
Willis I'll let you think about that... I'm going to bed... Good night BB
This does not mean he never heard His message before. But I don't want to derail your thread.
When a person comes to saving faith, you do not have to "Understand" the mysteries of the Gospel, you have to BELIEVE them. After the Spirit of Truth Comes into you, then can you UNDERSTAND them.
And who brings the lost to saving faith? Hmmmm?
Remember, not all ppl have faith, as 2 Thessalonians 3:2 affirms. If everybody had faith, then everybody is saved, seeing we are justified by faith.[Romans 5:1]
And of course you don't have to have a deep understanding. Where have I averred they do? But you have to do more than just believe. Repentance is involved in believing as well.[Mark 1:15]
I have a homework assignment I have to finish up. It was a pleasure discussing Scripture with you. Our great God and Savior Jesus Christ is worthy of all praise, honor and glory....I know we both feel the same way about that.
But one word of exhortation before I go, I hope you're just as passionate sharing Christ with lost people as your are telling me how you got saved!
OUR sins. He rose for OUR justification.[Romans 4:25]
But who brings ppl to saving faith? Themselves or God? Please answer this before you leave.
God. Salvation is of the Lord.
If He rose again for everybody, then everybody is justified, and if everybody is justified, then its universalism. He rose for OUR justification. OUR=believers=His sheep.
So, then faith comes from God.
Romans 5
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.
I must admit, when I see my Savior face to face, I will not care how this all worked out, I will just be immeasurably grateful and sob at His feet until the end of eternity for saving my soul.
But you never really addressed my statement that faith then comes from God.
'God would justify the Gentiles by faith...'[Galatians 3:8]
'God justifies the ungodly...'[Romans 4:5]
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.[Romans 8:28-30]
Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;[Romans 8:33]
In these verses, we can clearly see that it is God who justifies. Now, to be justified, means to be declared righteous before God. They do not stand before Him 'not guilty', but innocent, as if they had never committed a sin in their lives. That's why I aver faith is a gift of God. As the 'golden chain of redemption' states, those who God foreknew, He predestined, called, JUSTIFIED, and glorified. He did it all. We did squat. We did not give Him even one scintilla of faith, seeing we had none to give Him.
Rockson
Active Member
You see this is where Calvinists put themselves into a state of mind which violates all sane, rational thought. It's to be agreed if one rejects Jesus (LIFE) they'll not make heaven their home however to say all are JUST as bad to the same degree is ludicrous. Rev 20:13 says the dead will be judged according to their deeds, AND Jesus said it'd be more bearable from some people in the day of judgement as compared to others. Matt 11:22 If some will be judged more severely than others how could one say men are all JUST AS BAD the same?
Rockson
Active Member
Of course you set aside man's will capacity to create what you think is a winning argument for Calvinism. Things is though it doesn't, not by a long shot. There is not a problem with WILL. Where there's a problem is with the capacity to achieve CERTAIN things.
If one asked me to bench press 500 lbs I have the free will to try. And most likely would fail. Still had free will though.
If someone asked me to bench press 100 Ibs guess what? I probably could do it and do it with free will
So I could fail with free will decisions or succeed....failing wouldn't mean I didn't have free will or something was wrong with will.
Paul said, For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. Rom 7:18
Now with salvation....Is God asking us to do something we can not accomplish by acting on our free will to achieve. No. He would be IF he asked us to keep the law in the power of the flesh. But God is not asking us to do something with our will which is beyond our capacity to do.
He's asked of us a simple thing....merely believe and doing so it'll be just like with Abraham that it's accounted to us as righteousness. Abraham could never have pleased God by the keeping of a moral standard as later was revealed in the law BUT...he could believe.
My point. Man's capacity to choose and respond to God is still in tact. His will is not destroyed nor is it useless in this matter. What MEN choose is still the hinge on whether one walks in the grace of God or doesn't.
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