What is Your View of The Atonement By Jesus Christ?

[agedman]

If you read the start of Luke 13, you will see Jesus speak of repenting or else perishing, which can only mean from their sins to salvation. You have it the other way round!

Strike Two!

1Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2And Jesus said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate? 3“I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. 4“Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? 5“I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
​

Christ was teaching against retribution theology.

He, because the King of the kingdom was at hand, could call for repentance.

He knew the hearts, He knew that they aligned circumstance and physical well-being with sin.

He was showing such was an improper alignment.

He was not calling them to salvation. HE is salvation. He is the author and finisher. NONE other.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Strike Two!

1Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2And Jesus said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate? 3“I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. 4“Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? 5“I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
​

Christ was teaching against retribution theology.

He, because the King of the kingdom was at hand, could call for repentance.

He knew the hearts, He knew that they aligned circumstance and physical well-being with sin.

He was showing such was an improper alignment.

He was not calling them to salvation. HE is salvation. He is the author and finisher. NONE other.

are you seriously saying that a sinner can be born-again without repenting of their sins?

 

[agedman]

are you seriously saying that a sinner can be born-again without repenting of their sins?

Look,

YOU laid a very, very serious claim before the readers of the BB.

Do YOU recant from such a claim?

 

[agedman]

[Edited: Quoting deleted post]

Strike Three!

Well, I was going to give you an out by merely having the administrators remove the offensive post.

But, you press the issue by now claiming I misrepresent the Scriptures.

Just so you can remember, this is what Titus teaches.

1) a person is saved because "He" the Christ saved,
2) there is NO righteous deeds (much less unrighteous) that can be done to have gained salvation.
3) salvation is because (by, through...) the washing regenerative work of the Holy Spirit.
4) it is poured out by Christ.

Now, YOU want to claim that repentance is part of that statement in Titus.

I showed where repentance occurs. It is the result of the work of God, not that which attains the work of God.

You disagreed and made a very dishonorable claim, repeating the claim that I now misrepresent the words of Christ.

Rather then recanting, and merely asking the administrators to remove the offensive post(s) you have become more obstinate in proclamations without foundation.

So, why don't you start again.

Ask that post 94,96,97 be deleted from the thread.

Set your exuberance aside and discuss Scriptures.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Strike Three!

Well, I was going to give you an out by merely having the administrators remove the offensive post.

But, you press the issue by now claiming I misrepresent the Scriptures.

Just so you can remember, this is what Titus teaches.

1) a person is saved because "He" the Christ saved,
2) there is NO righteous deeds (much less unrighteous) that can be done to have gained salvation.
3) salvation is because (by, through...) the washing regenerative work of the Holy Spirit.
4) it is poured out by Christ.

Now, YOU want to claim that repentance is part of that statement in Titus.

I showed where repentance occurs. It is the result of the work of God, not that which attains the work of God.

You disagreed and made a very dishonorable claim, repeating the claim that I now misrepresent the words of Christ.

Rather then recanting, and merely asking the administrators to remove the offensive post(s) you have become more obstinate in proclamations without foundation.

So, why don't you start again.

Ask that post 94,96,97 be deleted from the thread.

Set your exuberance aside and discuss Scriptures.

I have said all that I have to on this with you

 

[Yeshua1]

Psalm 7:11 "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day."

How does that support your thesis


He's dead. He can't hear my question and he can't answer.

God anger/wrath is being built up daily before God, as in the judgement those sins will receive their due wrath and punishment, correct?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

There are some on these forums that are spiritually blinded, and cannot see Truth as taught in the Bible, even when you show them very clearly from the Word, that their position is wrong!

 

[agedman]

There are some on these forums that are spiritually blinded, and cannot see Truth as taught in the Bible, even when you show them very clearly from the Word, that their position is wrong!

Are you serious?

You make wild accusation(s) that are unproven, and then claim that "some on these forums that are spiritually blinded."

You claim repentance is necessary BEFORE salvation.

Peter said that BOTH repentance and baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus was required for the forgiveness of sins.

How would you explain baptism occurs AFTER salvation but repentance is BEFORE, and yet Peter telling the people differently?

Perhaps it might be necessary to apologize and ask certain posts to be deleted and move on with proving Scripture with Scriptures rather than trying to inspect the eyesight of others.

 

[thatbrian]

so you admit that the sinner has to DO something? "turn from sin to Christ"!

I will, as a Calvinist, "admit" that. Calvinists do not believe that men are inactive puppets, or that they have no obligations. What we understand to be evident from scripture is that men are made new creature/born again, by the Holy Spirit, through God's word proclaimed - THEN they respond in faith.

 

[TCassidy]

God anger/wrath is being built up daily before God, as in the judgement those sins will receive their due wrath and punishment, correct?

Scripture?

 

[TCassidy]

There are some on these forums that are spiritually blinded, and cannot see Truth as taught in the Bible, even when you show them very clearly from the Word, that their position is wrong!

Don't be so hard on yourself. You are not totally spiritually blind. Just very myopic. And don't worry, we will continue to teach you the truth until the light comes on.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Are you serious?

You make wild accusation(s) that are unproven, and then claim that "some on these forums that are spiritually blinded."

You claim repentance is necessary BEFORE salvation.

Peter said that BOTH repentance and baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus was required for the forgiveness of sins.

How would you explain baptism occurs AFTER salvation but repentance is BEFORE, and yet Peter telling the people differently?

Perhaps it might be necessary to apologize and ask certain posts to be deleted and move on with proving Scripture with Scriptures rather than trying to inspect the eyesight of others.

"Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). It is the "repentance" that saves the sinner, NOT the "baptism". The Greek for "for", (εἰς) has the meaning "because of", as when used by Jesus Christ for the preaching of Jonah, when the people of Nineveh "repented because of (εἰς) the preaching of Jonah" (Matthew 12:41). In both cases it was the "repenting" that brought salvation for these sinners. Note Jesus' words in Mark's Gospel, "And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned" (16:15-16). No "baptism" mentioned the second time, showing it is not a requirement for salvation!

I am off to bed here in England...

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Don't be so hard on yourself. You are not totally spiritually blind. Just very myopic. And don't worry, we will continue to teach you the truth until the light comes on.

 

[TCassidy]

You can make the Bible say anything you want it to!

I would caution you not to. God takes His word very seriously. You should too.

 

[Van]

repentance from sin and belief in the Lord Jesus Christ, as Saviour!

You need to stick with what scripture says. I provided two verses which explicitly state the basis of God choosing individuals for salvation. But did not list them, probably because you did not consider they present something different from your mantra.

1) Through faith in the truth. Now is that phrase just using "truth" as a name for Jesus? Or does the phrase encompass trusting in God and His word? And if we ignore what God says, would we meet God's criteria for election?

2) God chose the poor to the world. Is the idea that those chosen do not treasure what the world treasures?

3) Rich is faith. So not only do those chosen have faith in the truth, but they are rich in faith, List what would make you rich in faith?

4) Heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love God. Did our love and devotion result in striving to become Christ-like, striving to learn all He commanded, and striving to keep His commandments?

 

[Yeshua1]

Scripture?

Isaiah 51:17/Revelation 16:1 are just 2 passages!

 

[agedman]

Isaiah 51:17/Revelation 16:1 are just 2 passages!

I want to congratulate you on sharing Scripture.

Of course, neither one is about God pouring wrath upon either His Son or believers, but you did actually use Scripture.

So, how do you tie in these with the thread - "what is your view of atonement by Jesus Christ?"

 

[Yeshua1]

I want to congratulate you on sharing Scripture.

Of course, neither one is about God pouring wrath upon either His Son or believers, but you did actually use Scripture.

So, how do you tie in these with the thread - "what is your view of atonement by Jesus Christ?"

Jesus in the Garden was dealing with Himself soon having to take upon Himself that awful Bowl/Cup of the Wrath of God to come upon sins and sinners!

 

[TCassidy]

Jesus in the Garden was dealing with Himself soon having to take upon Himself that awful Bowl/Cup of the Wrath of God to come upon sins and sinners!

Scripture?

 

[TCassidy]

Isaiah 51:17/Revelation 16:1 are just 2 passages!

How does "Awake, awake, stand up, O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the LORD the cup of his fury; thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling, and wrung them out" or "And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth" support your assertion? I don't see it.